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Editing 5D in Final Cut - Interlacing/Pulldown issues

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Gerrit Van Dyke
Editing 5D in Final Cut - Interlacing/Pulldown issues
on Apr 11, 2011 at 3:41:48 pm

I apologize in advance if this topic has been discussed many times on this site. I've been looking for the last hour and haven't been able to nail down my exact problem.

I'll try to sum up the situation in a nutshell. I'm working on a documentary that is still in the process of being shot. Most of the footage looks great, but there is a section I'm working on right now where the footage is not as strong. All footage has been converted to Pro Res 422 (using the settings many have posted here). I can post a still of the settings if necessary.

I'm running FCP 6 with a Kona 3 card. Right now I'm working in 23.98, 1920x1080i. We're still not sure if this will be going to broadcast, film festivals, DVD or online (or all four). Although the footage is 1080p, it's being output at 1080i to my monitor.


There are some handheld panning shots that look fine on my computer monitor, but when output to the my non-broadcast consumer TV (it's a long story why we don't have broadcast HD monitors here) the footage becomes very shaky - the pulldown being added is very apparent.
It's basically a jittery, shaky mess. It appears to be happening after a couple seconds (the shot is smoothish for the first couple seconds, then gets jittery). In other scenes, where cameras are on rails and the moves are very smooth, it is much less noticeable.

I've tried adding in the pulldowns manually in After Effects (Dave Laronde gave a brief rundown in another thread) but that didn't seem to help this particular problem.

So I guess my question is this:

Is this a result of the footage provided, a user error on my part, a file being incorrectly converted, or a limitation of the Kona card?

The material can be re-shot if necessary. I just want to make sure if they do re-shoot, I can give them the right details.

I can post a reference quicktime of the worst shot if that helps.

If anyone has any advice on this, it would be much appreciated,


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Gerrit Van Dyke
Re: Editing 5D in Final Cut - Interlacing/Pulldown issues
on Apr 11, 2011 at 8:34:45 pm

Okay! I think I may have figured it out. I've imported the footage into After Effects into a 29:97 composition and changed the frame blending on the clip to pixel motion. It looks way better. I had tried converting to 29.97 in compressor, mpeg streamclip, and final cut but the frameblending always looked awful.

Now, I wonder if I'm better off editing at 23.98 then rendering my entire movie in after effects (I guess in segments) in 29.97? Does that make sense or should I convert each file individually first?

Any ideas?


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Brent Dunn
Re: Editing 5D in Final Cut - Interlacing/Pulldown issues
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:43:21 pm

You said you are editing in 1080i but your footage is 1080p. Why edit in 1080i?

I always edit in the native format then convert if needed after the fact.

Have you done a test export in the native format? This may clear up transcoding issue questions.

Brent Dunn
Owner / Director / Editor
DunnRight Films
DunnRight Video.com
Video Marketing Toolbox.net

Sony EX-1,
Canon 5D Mark II
Canon 7D
Mac Pro Tower, Quad Core,
with Final Cut Studio

HP i7 Quad laptop
Adobe CS-5 Production Suite





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Gerrit Van Dyke
Re: Editing 5D in Final Cut - Interlacing/Pulldown issues
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:08:59 pm

My mistake, I am editing in 1080p. I hadn't realized that in the sequence setting, the aspect ratio says 1080i even though the sequence is progressive.

My original solution (converting to 29.97) appears to be flawed as some shots will have that weird pixel motion noise in areas of the shot. It just happened to work well for my problem shot. Changing my pulldown pattern in the sequence to 2:3:3:2 seems to have helped quite a bit, although it's still not perfect.


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Doug Beal
Re: Editing 5D in Final Cut - Interlacing/Pulldown issues
on Apr 13, 2011 at 9:19:14 pm

2:3:3:2 is a pulldown pattern typically used for "advanced pulldown" a cadence to be detected in order for 24P material shot on a tape based camera to be injested at 29.97 and then the pulldown removed to be edited at 23.98 as in dvx100 etc.
you'd be much farther ahead cutting in 23.98 Psf and generating your deliverables from that.

Doug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN


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Gerrit Van Dyke
Re: Editing 5D in Final Cut - Interlacing/Pulldown issues
on Apr 13, 2011 at 10:11:58 pm

I see. So should I just ignore the pulldowns being added to my broadcast (consumer) television? Although I'm working in 23.98psf on my computer, the output from FCP/Kona still converts the signal to 29.97 to the television monitor by adding the pulldowns.

I'm more concerned about if this does go to air at 29.97, that this pulldown issue will return.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Editing 5D in Final Cut - Interlacing/Pulldown issues
on Apr 14, 2011 at 7:11:23 pm

I'd say it's your monitoring system that's leading you astray.

If you have 1920x1080 progressive video at a frame rate of 23.976 fps in the ProRes codec, then you should be editing in an FCP edit timeline that matches that footage. Editing in any other timeline will cause problems later in the workflow... the kind of problems you'd rather not have when the project is almost done.

Since you don't have a proper video monitor -- and it's a real shame, because your Kona 3 card can automatically add the 3:2 pulldown for easy viewing on a monitor -- I'd say you'll have to rely on those little pea-shooter FCP viewers.

You're in an odd situation: a really good card like the Kona 3, but hooked up to it is a no-good device for viewing the output of that card.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Gerrit Van Dyke
Re: Editing 5D in Final Cut - Interlacing/Pulldown issues
on Apr 14, 2011 at 9:33:20 pm

I see.
So, just to clarify (and so I can use this as ammunition to the bosses in order to get proper broadcast monitors), the Kona really only accurately adds the 3:2 pulldown to be viewed on a real broadcast monitor as opposed to what you may see through the component HD to a consumer TV. Dave, can you confirm for me that's what you're saying?

This is good to know. Obviously having a broadcast monitor is a more accurate representation of what the final output is, but it's good to know that the pulldowns could be an issue. I do have a broadcast monitor FYI, it's just not HD (so it's useless in this case).

A few things I wanted to note (again just to make sure it's not user error on my part):
• I have tried in in another suite, that outputs to another type of consumer TV. Same result.
• 95% of the material in this Doc so far do not have this issue. I suspect it is partially a result of the camera man as well - the pans are too fast for 24p and I also wonder if the shutter is set too slow.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Editing 5D in Final Cut - Interlacing/Pulldown issues
on Apr 14, 2011 at 10:03:42 pm

Tell you what: why don't you stop over to the COW's FCP forum, and get it straight from the horse's mouth?
You can tell them about your current setup, and about your concerns, and you'll get a response from people who have actually put editing systems together instead of a mere FCP user like me.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Gerrit Van Dyke
Re: Editing 5D in Final Cut - Interlacing/Pulldown issues
on Apr 14, 2011 at 10:51:22 pm

Thanks Dave, I appreciate the help.


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