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TS or TRS to connect devices

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Gami Rosd
TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 26, 2016 at 9:08:08 pm

What I understand is that TRS is the cable that has two black rings like this one TRS and it also called stereo.

While TS is the cable that has one black rings like this one TS and it also called mono.

These are the instructions in the manual for the 3 devices I want to connect

DBX 286s



DBX 131s



DBX 166xs



So according to the manual I should only use TRS, right?

GR!


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Richard Crowley
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 27, 2016 at 4:12:02 am

TRS is NOT "stereo" except in the case of headphones.
TRS can be (and typically is) MONO BALANCED line-level.
Sometimes TRS is send/return in the case of inserts.

If you want to tell us exactly what you want to connect to which, we can offer you expert advice.

Remember that if you use a TRS cable with a TS unbalanced source and a TRS balanced destination, you will very probably end up with an open circuit and no audio.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.


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Gami Rosd
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 27, 2016 at 7:33:46 pm

Thanks a lot for correcting my wrong information.
Here is exactly what I want to do:



I want to connect :

- SM7B to 286s.

- 286s to 131s.

- 286s to 166xs.

-166xs to Yamaha AG06.

- Now to record I've two options to record :
1) Yamaha to Zoom H5.
2) Yamaha to iPod.

GR!


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Gami Rosd
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 27, 2016 at 7:38:41 pm

This is the .pdf for clear pictures for AG06
http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=usa.yamaha.com&...

GR!


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Gami Rosd
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 27, 2016 at 8:29:18 pm

OK, I think I understand it right now.
According to what you mentioned and for the above image, I think :
1 - XLR cable between SM7B and dbx 286s.
2 - Insert cable between dbx 286s and dbx 131s. (This one I am still confused about it).
3 - TRS cable between dbx 286s & 166xs.
4 - TRS cable between dbx 166xs & Yamaha AG06.
5 - USB3 lighting cable to connect AG06 to iPod.
Is this correct?

GR!


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Richard Crowley
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 27, 2016 at 9:53:27 pm

Yes, a common XLR-male to XLR-female "mic cable" to connect the SM7B microphone to the 286 mic preamp.

Then you have two options for the 131 graphic EQ...
1) You can use it as an "INSERT" out of the 286, through the 13,1 and then back into the 286. This would require a special insert cable. Example: Hosa STP-201
2) Or, you can simply connect the output of the 286 to the input of the 131, and the output of the 131 to the 166.

Yes, except for the insert cable, you would use an ordinary TRS to TRS cable for all the other connections.

It does seem odd, however that you have all this gear but don't seem to know how to use it. How did you happen to get all this and why do you think you need it?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.


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Gami Rosd
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 28, 2016 at 4:31:45 am

- OK for SM7B and 286s.
- So the INSERT of 286s will be the TRS and the input and output of 131s will be the TS mono.
- Yes TRS for all.
- Yes I am new and do not know everything as I've just goggled for what professionals are using and I've bought what I've found and now I am learning (Thanks to you :) )

GR!


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Richard Crowley
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 28, 2016 at 4:58:40 am

Remember that just because other people are using something doesn't mean that YOU need it. And it doesn't even mean that THEY need it or are getting benefit from it. It is puzzling that anyone would buy any of that without confirming first that they actually NEED it.????

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.


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Gami Rosd
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 28, 2016 at 7:33:21 am

I could not agree more with what you said as it makes sense. But my problem was that I do not have any music store in my town and only the internet was my source and no way to try before I buy, so I just listened to podcasts and voice overs by professional and what gear they are recommended then goggled for a way to connect it and adjust it, so here I am, but I wish if there were local stores that are having professional consultants.
This how experts like you helping the newbies like myself :)

GR!


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Richard Crowley
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 28, 2016 at 8:42:34 am

Recommend plugging your SM7B directly into the Yamaha AG06. You can probably send all the DBX gear back for a refund. For that matter, is that big old SM7B really appropriate for what you are doing (and WHERE)? Remember that a very large portion of the "sound" is a function of the space you are in. A pile of gear taller than you can't compensate for poor acoustics, etc.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.


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Gami Rosd
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 28, 2016 at 11:15:49 am

The only reason for using the Shure SM7B is that it does not pick any background noise but it does requires a LOT of gain and this was the reason to use 286s.
I never thought to use the Microphone and USB interface directly only.
I will try it and feed you back.

GR!


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Richard Crowley
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 28, 2016 at 11:45:18 am

A relatively insensitive dynamic microphone like the Shure SM7B may appear to "not pick any background noise" but that is simply because it isn't very sensitive. It is not particularly directional and will do you no favors unless you have a good acoustic space to record in. In addition, it is quite large and hard to handle particularly if you are doing video. Note that this is 2016 and technology from your grandfather's era may not be the most optimal here in the 21st century.

And because the Shure SM7B is relatively low sensitivity, it "requires a LOT of gain". Honestly, depending on what you are doing, that microphone is not particularly a good choice. But it looks impressive and that influences "experts" on the internet who otherwise don't know what they are talking about and certainly don't understand the technology.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.


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Gami Rosd
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 28, 2016 at 3:46:01 pm

[Richard Crowley] "A relatively insensitive dynamic microphone like the Shure SM7B may appear to "not pick any background noise" but that is simply because it isn't very sensitive. "
That is good for me because I am not in a studio but in my bedroom. When I tried the regular condenser microphone by zoom digital recorder it was picking everything and drives me crazy by its sensitivity so the SM7B is a better option.

[Richard Crowley] "It is not particularly directional and will do you no favors unless you have a good acoustic space to record in."
I've 8 acoustic panels in my place in the front of my desk and to my right and to my left and above the desk.

[Richard Crowley] "In addition, it is quite large and hard to handle particularly if you are doing video. Note that this is 2016 and technology from your grandfather's era may not be the most optimal here in the 21st century."
I am only doing audio and no videos at all.

[Richard Crowley] "And because the Shure SM7B is relatively low sensitivity, it "requires a LOT of gain". Honestly, depending on what you are doing, that microphone is not particularly a good choice. But it looks impressive and that influences "experts" on the internet who otherwise don't know what they are talking about and certainly don't understand the technology."
To be honest with you I am not any kind of experts or informative to judge others on the internet but I just found 3 microphones recommended by people who are doing podcast, Heil PR-40, EV RE-20, SM7B and the reason I've picked SM7B was the YouTube tests I've watched that are reporting it is the one who is picking the less background noise.

But if you have a better option, then I am all ears and really interested to know and do the right thing.

GR!


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Richard Crowley
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 29, 2016 at 1:14:59 am

Without better details of what you are trying to do and how and where, it would be foolish to offer any suggestions. Where did you get this advice about buying a Shure SM7B and a big stack of DBX processing gear? Did THEY base this equipment recommendation on your specific requirements? Or is this just some bloggers dream of a cool stack of gear? Hopefully this wasn't the recommendation of some online retailer who makes a profit on each box.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.


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Gami Rosd
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 29, 2016 at 3:39:56 am

[Richard Crowley] "Without better details of what you are trying to do and how and where, it would be foolish to offer any suggestions. "
I am trying to record professional audio for a podcast.

[Richard Crowley] "Where did you get this advice about buying a Shure SM7B and a big stack of DBX processing gear?"
When I goggled for what are the professional audio gear to use to produce professional audio quality for the podcast I am planning and preparing to produce, so I've got the names and I've got it used eBay.

[Richard Crowley] "Did THEY base this equipment recommendation on your specific requirements? "
No as I do not know them personally but all I did was watching YouTube and reading articles or blogs or Facebook posts.

[Richard Crowley] "Or is this just some bloggers dream of a cool stack of gear? Hopefully this wasn't the recommendation of some online retailer who makes a profit on each box."
Actually after my stuck and trouble shooting to let it work it seems that you may be right. But to be honest some recommendation was from BSW (166xs).
For example The AG06 was recommended by This guys who are producing podcasts





and you can see the DBX in his table that was recommended in other episodes.





The same was applied to the rest of the gear.
But no blog dream, so may we back to topic to help me.
Thanks

GR!


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Richard Crowley
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 29, 2016 at 6:08:36 pm
Last Edited By Richard Crowley on Sep 29, 2016 at 6:11:21 pm

Wow, "professional audio for a podcast" tells us almost nothing useful. What does "podcast" mean? Why do you think you need "professional audio" for your podcast? Are you producing a popular and successful podcast now and feel you need to improve your audio? Or are you starting out at zero and just collecting gear? YouTube just flogged this at me this morning and you might find it instructive:







For that matter "professional audio" is essentially undefined. The actual quality of the audio as the audience hears it has very little to do with all that great stack of DBX processing gear. It has VERY MUCH to do with your recording space, your microphone (and how you are using it), your particular voice, and what kind of voice track you are trying to produce. I fully endorse the advice given by the TWiT guys: start with what you already have and acquire solutions as you discover problems that need solving.

Most professionals would scoff at buying a big stack of DBX processing boxes (or any other brand or type, for that matter). At least before you have established ANY NEED for any of it. You have got yourself a bunch of fancy solutions to problems you have not encountered (and probably never will).

Here is another TWiT program on broadcast radio engineering where they interview the "engineer to the stars" who advises people in the top tier of voice talent. He (and the other engineers on the program) do NOT recommend that big stack of gear. Their advice is same as mine: Pay attention to the acoustics, and simpler is better.







If someone asked me for advice, I would tell them to spend 50% of their budget on acoustics. Blocking environmental noise, and controlling room acoustics (reflections, reverb, etc.) Nothing sounds more like Amateur Hour than recording in a reflective space. Makes it sound like you are broadcasting from the toilet.

And my FIRST choice for a microphone would be a modern headset mic like the Rode HS2 headset or even the Pyle-Pro PMEM1 Headworn Omni-Directional Microphone. A headset microphone gets the mic MUCH CLOSER to your mouth and greatly decreases the effect of environmental noise and room acoustics. In addition, it KEEPS the position of the microphone CONSTANT for a uniform sound. Most of those broadcast mics (like the Shure SM7) require active "working" where you are VERY consious of the EXACT position of your mouth at all times. Don't turn your head or the sound will degrade rapidly. Radio DJ's know this and you can see how they "work the mic" at all times. This is hard for amateurs to learn, and using those kinds of old-school mikes will just make the problem worse.

http://www.rode.com/microphones/hs2
https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Pro-PMEM1-Headworn-Omni-Directional-Microphone/...

As for the Yamaha AG0x mixer/interface. Yeah, OK. It is just another "me-too" low-end mini-mixer and USB interface. Except for a few fancy "features" (which are likely of no benefit to you) it is little different than the Behringer or any number of other similar mini USB mixers. It is ironic that you are buying higher-end professional processing gear (DBX) and then feeding it all into a low-end consumer interface. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with that Yamaha mixer/interface. But it is probably more than adequate for your needs, and the DBX stuff is dramatic over-kill on several levels.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.


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Gami Rosd
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 29, 2016 at 10:44:47 pm

hum ... what shall I do now!?

GR!


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Richard Crowley
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 29, 2016 at 11:24:16 pm

What kind of recording (podcast or whatever) are you doing?
What kind of qualities in your recorded voice do you need for that?

Do you have a deep voice and want to sound like a radio DJ from the 1950s?
Do you have a normal voice but want some kind of processing to make it more dramatic?

Is you podcast about exciting things where you will be yelling and jumping about?
Does that mean you will need compression and/or limiting?
If you are moving around how will you handle staying in the rather small "sweet spot" of that mic?

Are you going to be talking about serious things where clarity and intelligibility are important?
Or are you making a show for children where a warm and friendly sound would be preferable?

Are you going to be doing this ad-lib, or reading from a prepared script?
Are you going to be recording this "dry" and then mixing it with music or adding effects in post-production?
Or will you be recording it "live to tape" (as we used to say) with no post-production editing.

Will you be wearing headphones to monitor what you are recording?
See my signature line where I recommend ALWAYS monitoring while recording. Even yourself.
Note that you will need to get used to hearing your voice back through the headphones.
This can sometimes throw off or distract or confuse amateurs, but experiment to see how it affects you.

How is your space? Quiet? Non-reflective?
Have you made test recordings to see how it sounds?
Remember that no microphone "hears" the same way your ear/brain system works.
The bottom line is how the microphone "hears" it and what is recorded.
The mic may pick up things that you don't even notice with your ears.
And conversely, you might hear something with your ears that the mic simply ignores.

How well does that mic (Shure SM7B) work with your voice?
How well does that mic work with the acoustics in your room?
Have you tried the SM7B directly into the Yamaha AG06?

Do you have a very wide dynamic range that will require limiting or compression?
Does the recorded track need EQ to achieve what you want from your recordings?

After you figure out how to interconnect everything, do you know how to operate it?
Do you know how to "gain-stage" all the links in the chain?
Do you know how to tell if you are recording in the "Goldilocks Zone"?
Not "too cold" down in the "mud" of the noise-floor of your space and all the gear.
And not "too hot" and clipping one or more of the pieces of gear, especially the AG06.
(For example in that first video clip, the guest who called in had his level set "too hot" and it was clipping.)

Do you know how to tell if you need compression and/or limiting?
Do you know the difference between compression and limiting?
Do you know how to adjust the compressor/limiter?

Same for the equalizer. Do you know how to use it to change the tone of the recordings?

You don't need to answer any of those questions HERE (unless you seek help understanding them)?
But you should at least be asking yourself those questions and knowing (or discovering) the answers.
There are probably dozens more details that enter into the whole picture when selecting and installing gear.

Most of this you can learn simply by experimenting and trial and error.
Certainly allow enough time to play with all the gear and all the functions and knobs and adjustments.
Learn how each function changes the sound. Does it make the sound more like what you are seeking?
If you have questions about things come to this or a similar forum and ask specific questions.
Tell us what you are hearing vs. how you want it to sound. Be sure to include links to example clips.
There are professional voice artists here in this form and hundreds of years of experience with all that gear.

If you are not familiar with all that gear, just start simple. Just use the mic and the Yamaha mixer/USB.
THEN you can start adding gear when you perceive that you need it.
Not knowing any details, we don't know, but it is possible that you don't need any more mic preamp than the Yamaha.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.


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Gami Rosd
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 30, 2016 at 12:52:25 am

wow!
OK. I will follow your advise and feed you back with my progress and if I've got stuck with something.
Really much appreciated your valuable time helping me.

GR!


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Gami Rosd
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 30, 2016 at 12:58:10 am

May I ask if I want to send you something if you have any personal or public email address ?
mine is
GamiRosd-at-Gmail-.-com

GR!


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Richard Crowley
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 30, 2016 at 1:18:34 am

Gami, I sent you my email.
However, I get so much junk in my email that it is probably less reliable than posting questions on the web forum.
Besides, half the value of a public forum is for the questions and answers to be preserved in public so that people coming after us have the benefit of the information.
So, I will not answer questions in private email that would benefit others.
Also, in the public forum, you have the benefit of others reading the responses and perhaps giving you a “second opinion” different from my personal opinion.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.


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Gami Rosd
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 30, 2016 at 2:04:07 am

Thanks a lot.
Regarding acoustic panels, what type of acoustic panels I should use?
I am recording in my bedroom and I do not have the space to make a booth so I think acoustic will be a good option.

GR!


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Richard Crowley
Re: TS or TRS to connect devices
on Sep 30, 2016 at 3:07:10 am

It is not advisable to recommend anything before examining what you are starting with.
Have you tried actually recording in your bedroom yet? What does it sound like?
Are there echoes? How much environmental noise is there? What kind of noise?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder.


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