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Cardoid lav to Røde Filmmaker or Sennheiser AVX

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Casimir Artmann
Cardoid lav to Røde Filmmaker or Sennheiser AVX
on Jun 11, 2016 at 10:06:20 am

I tried a Sennheiser ME4N lavalliere to a Røde Fillmaker kit and got a problem with a loud interference from transmitter & receiver. Sennheiser doesn't sell any kits with ME4N's with AVX and my guest is they will have the same problem.

My question is if there are any cardoid lavallieres that with with new digital systems?

Otherwise, I have to resolve the problem with buying classic analog G3 systems.


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Eric Toline
Re: Cardoid lav to Røde Filmmaker or Sennheiser AVX
on Jun 11, 2016 at 8:29:57 pm

The problem is not with the lav it's the wireless system interfererence. Look at a better system than the Rode.

"I push the RECORD button and hope for the best"


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Casimir Artmann
Re: Cardoid lav to Røde Filmmaker or Sennheiser AVX
on Jun 11, 2016 at 10:36:11 pm

Hi Eric. Thanks for your input.

Could you please give some examples of digital systems that work with cardoid lavallieres suitable for ENG-type of work. My guess is that Sennheiser AVX an't good enough either, so what are the options?

/Casi


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Eric Toline
Re: Cardoid lav to Røde Filmmaker or Sennheiser AVX
on Jun 12, 2016 at 11:58:08 am

The pattern (omni, cardioid, etc) of the microphone has absolutely nothing to do with what system it works with. It's more important that the connector on the mic is wired correctly for the wireless system. Why you're looking at a cardioid pattern lav is strange as they are more prone to p-pops and off axis level changes with head turns. Omni lavs are your best all around choice.

"I push the RECORD button and hope for the best"


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Casimir Artmann
Re: Cardoid lav to Røde Filmmaker or Sennheiser AVX
on Jun 12, 2016 at 4:05:33 pm

I normally use Røde lavalliers for interviews, omni-directional, but sometimes the ambient noise is out of my control and therefore I would like to have a cardoid lavalliere as an option, for example Sennheiser ME4-N. I would like to avoid to use a shotgun microphone, as we very seldom have a dedicated boom-operator.

I have used other older omi-directional Senneheiser lavs with the Røde system without any issues, and therefore there was a surprise to me with the interference with the Røde kit with ME4-N. We have also used Røde lavs with Sennheiser G3 sets.

Røde doesn't sell any cardoid lavs but others, as Sennheiser and Sony, do. It's possible to buy a new G3 kit in Europe with either ME2 omni-directional and ME4 cardoid lavallier, but the new AVX-kits are only sold with ME2/MKE2 lavalliere.

I was told the the frequency used in Røde Filmmaker kits (Wi-fi) and Sennheiser AVX (DECT) both make interference with cardoid lavallieres and their cables. Older Sennheiser omni-directional lavs could also be prone to this issue.

So, my initial question remains. Are there any cardoid lavalliers that work with digital wireless systems suitable for ENG type of work. Rack-mount receivers are therefore out of scope.

My plan B is to buy two or three sets of Senneheiser G3 sets with ME2-microphones and thus have the option of use either omni-directional or cardoid miss, with an option to go by XLR if everything else fails.


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Eric Toline
Re: Cardoid lav to Røde Filmmaker or Sennheiser AVX
on Jun 12, 2016 at 9:51:38 pm

I really hoped I might be able to shed some light on your problem but in all my years in audio I have never heard of the issue you are having or the information you were given about cardiod mics being more prone to RF problems because of their pick up pattern. If you could post any factual information about that I would love to see it. Good luck in your search for a solution.

"I push the RECORD button and hope for the best"


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Casimir Artmann
Re: Cardoid lav to Røde Filmmaker or Sennheiser AVX
on Jun 12, 2016 at 11:15:49 pm

Eric, with your experience, have you worked with any cardioid lavallieres using higher frequency bands than traditional wireless sets for ENG-work?

I'll try to check with a set of Sennheiser AVX during the week and see if I can reproduce the problem.

I use Micon-1 adapter on the Røde lavallieres and attached them to the transmitter and then a Sennerheiser CL-100 from receiver to a Zoom H6. Works perfectly fine. The transmitter is set to -20 dB.

Tried two different Sennheiser ME4-N outdoor, with to sets of Røde wireless kits. Got an interference that differed based on distance to receiver and distance to transmitter, eg. 10 m away it was much less.

During the weekend, I tried indoor at home where there are many wif-fi networks, and hade the same type of interference, but even worse.

I talked to my mentor, who has been using ME2's and ME4's with G2's and G3's for a very long time, and he never experienced such a problem. Therefore, my hypothesis is that some microphones are much more sensitive to high-frequencies than other.

If there are other cardioid lavs that works, then it's not due to pick-up patterns, but more sensitivity of microphone.


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Eric Toline
Re: Cardoid lav to Røde Filmmaker or Sennheiser AVX
on Jun 13, 2016 at 12:21:18 am

In all of my years I have never used any wireless above 780Mhz. I have Lectrosonic wireless that still work perfectly in the VHF 170 Mhz band. I must admit to being a novice so to speak in the 2.4Ghz and up bands. I've tested the Sennheiser system and got about 300 ft useable range except when the signal path was momentarily cut off by a passing truck between the Tx & Rx.

As a bit of FYI, I run the Professional Sound Services (http://www.pro-sound.com) operation in Ft. Lauderdale Florida. We carry all the major brands of wireless both in rental and for sale. I'm going try a set of the Sennheiser 2.4Ghz wireless and see if I can duplicate your problem. The hard part is finding a cardiod lav to work with as 99% of our stock are omni's. More later.

"I push the RECORD button and hope for the best"


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Ty Ford
Re: Cardoid lav to Røde Filmmaker or Sennheiser AVX
on Jun 13, 2016 at 1:46:51 pm

Hello Casimir and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.,

You bring a very good point to the forum.

So the ME2 works, but the ME4 is sensitive to digital hash from the transmitter?

I have found similar problems with the Audio Technica microprint mics versus their larger lavs.

It would seem that the shielding on the ME4 is not as robust as it needs to be to prevail with the Rode. This could be for many reasons. One of which might be that cardioids require an opening behind the capsule to allow the sound to enter. That opening may also allow access to the electronics for incoming digital transmitter interference.

I would suggest trying a Countryman. B2D to see if it works any better.

I say this because I found that the Countryman B6 works with the AT System 10 digital wireless.

Please let us know what you find out. Meanwhile, I will pass this on to Sennheiser.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Ty Ford Blog: Ty Ford's Blog


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Casimir Artmann
Re: Cardoid lav to Røde Filmmaker or Sennheiser AVX
on Jun 13, 2016 at 1:57:31 pm

According to Senneheiser, via retail in Sweden, ME4-N, doesn't work with their AVX system and they recommend a G3 kit to me instead.

The guys I'm working with all use G3's so I go that route and use Røde as a backup solution in G3's band are to crowded.


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