FORUMS: list search recent posts

Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance

COW Forums : Audio Professionals

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Jaanus Henno
Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 8, 2013 at 8:58:31 am

Hi!

I'm preparing a tour to India and I'm gathering equipment for audio/video shooting while I'm there. I'm always getting a good advice from all of you on Creative forums, so I'm sure you are better to know things like this than I am.

The situation is that I'm getting a Canon XA10 which has a shotgun mount on it and I would like to put a good mic on it. I will be filming in different circumstances, but my main concern is to get a good audio indoor shoots while the distance from the speaker is quite big, let's say 4-6 meters. Is that really possible?

As much as I know the answer is no. Then my question is that putting aside the fact of connecting the lav or whatever is closeby directly to the camera, will there be a big difference of using the internal mic or getting something like Rode Ngs-2 (which I'm considering)? Will it be worth it? I mean for any circumstance.

And another point. Although the distance is big, there's a PA system and I've gotten pretty good results simply with the internal mic when the speaker system used have a good quality sound. But the speakers are on sides while the shotgun mic will be pointing on the speaker. Will the internal omnidirectional mic do better in that case? I'm trying to figure out do I acutally need an external microphone at all or not?

If yes, then please recommend something, in the price category of ngs-2, not higher.


Return to posts index


Peter Groom
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 8, 2013 at 9:34:59 am

HI
What is or is not good enough or can be called "good results" is entirely down to personal expectation, but my opinion is this.

1) A shotgun mic on the top of the camera rather than using the on board mics will always give "better" results, but it will bot really pick up well at that distance. It will not be clean or crips, but will be better than the camera.

2) Recording ambient sound from the speakers or PA has never even been remotely acceptable to me regardless of what mic or position you are at from the speaker.

3) Id suggest taking a feed from the PA sound desk in addition to whatever you can do yourself, onto 1 track of the camera. I have had excellent results padding down the PA desk output by 40db and putting it into a radio transmitter , and txing that to my camera.

Pros. No cables and you get as good as the pa mics pickup

Cons. Youre relying on the operator of the desk to have the right mics open at the right time, not to just leave them all open all the time, and that he doesnt get feedback and that his mics are well suited / positioned and all work. Also batteries run out on radios, which is why a cable is ultimately better, but might not be possible if there are other people around or if you need to be mobile. But remember this is always as a backup to whatever you can do yourself.
Work on the basis that everyone else is useless and will foul it up. Then you get a nice surprise if they dont.

4) Ideally you need to get your rifle mic into the action area, within a couple or 3 feet to the speakers. A Boom op is the solution for this.

5) And ive said this before. The most important piece of kit is not the camera, or the mics or the desk, but headphones. Do wear them all the time and listen end of chain.

Cheers

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


Return to posts index

Jaanus Henno
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 8, 2013 at 9:50:36 am

Thanks Peter for a quick response!

Ok, I had the feeling that I should get mic anyway, here's the confirmation;-) I will probably get a Rode ntg-2. Is that a good choice?

2 questions: Can you recommend a good portable radio system for wireless pickup? How will the receiver be set on the camera?

And thanks for mentioning the headphones, I really have to get a good pair of them. Any recommendations on that part also?

My regards


Return to posts index


Eric Toline
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 8, 2013 at 4:02:13 pm

A set of Sennheiser G3 wireless is a very good choice and it comes with a Sennheiser lav mic. The receiver comes with a hot shoe mount that will allow you to mount it on the camera if the camera has a hot shoe recepticle. For headphones the Sony 7506 is the defacto standard. Figure about $600 for the wireless system & $100 for the headphones.

Eric

"I push the RECORD button and hope for the best"


Return to posts index

Peter Groom
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 8, 2013 at 4:06:47 pm

HI
Its difficult to say kit wise as I dont know which country youre in. Im in the UK and quite a lot of our kit is very different to US, eg we dont gave countryman or lectrosonics here,often recommended by US contributors.

Re the Rode. I have no experience of Rode mics so someone else will have to comment on that, but please be aware that i put "better" in commas. At that distance no mic will really reach but it will be "better" than the camera built in mics.

2) Radios. I quite like the Sennheiser G3, or the audio ltd range is pretty much the standard here in the uk, but costs a lot.
If youre single shooting, they usually can be mounted on the hot show adapter at the camera top. There should be 2 1 front for a light, 1 rear for a rx receiver.

3) I cant recommend a particular make or model, but recommend you buy
i) something of the correct impeaence. Look in the manuals tech specs for your camera. The headphone output will have an Ohms value. 8ohms or 400ohms etc. Then match your headphone choice to that.

ii) something that sits around the whole ear with soft cushions to keep external noise down.

iii) something rugged. Theyll not last long in the field if theyre not strong. I use beyer dynamic DT100s. Its down to budget, but do match the impedences of theyll not perform correctly.
Stick to a brand name youre familiar with. Sony MDRV150 arent bad for general use, but wont take much stick. I have a few pairs of them too.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


Return to posts index

Ty Ford
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 9, 2013 at 5:31:07 am

Hello Jaanus,

In addition to the good info you have received from Eric and Peter, I'd suggest you raise your sights from an NTG-2 to the NTG-3 as long as your camera provides Phantom Power.

The NTG-3 uses the same RF circuit scheme as the Sennheiser MKH 416. It's humid in India. YOU need all the protection you can get.

More about the NTG-3 here: http://tyfordaudiovideo.blogspot.com/2013/01/rode-ntg-3-shotgun-mic.html

Regards,

Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum Leader

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Ty Ford Blog: Ty Ford's Blog


Return to posts index


Jaanus Henno
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 9, 2013 at 10:32:03 am

Hi!

Thank you all for your advice, now it's quite clear.

I'll have to think about the wireless system, it's quite expensive for me. But I might go for it or something similar if that could be combined with wireless microphones. I also want to get a wireless microphone system for general use and if it would also include a radio transmitter for the camera then that I'm interested in.

Any recommendations on that?

Hi Ty! Thank you for the review on the mike! NTG-3 sounds better and as you said, it tolerates humidity, but the price is almost 3 times more than the previous model. If I could afford it, I would take it. I think I still have to go with NTG-2 and the time I'll be in India will be dry. Rainy season is another story, but usually it's quite dry there.

Thanks again for the tips, cheers.


Return to posts index

Peter Groom
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 9, 2013 at 10:54:20 am

HI
I think the high costs of the purchase of kit are the single biggest reason why the advice from me and other people on this forum often tends to suggest that film makers do one of the following.

1) Hire the kit from a kit hire company. That way you get the quality kit you want, but budget stops you from buying .

2) Hire a sound man to look after it for you.

Either of those will mean that the significant cost in buying high end quality kit will be born by others, while you get the right kit and only pay for it for a short time.

Worth considering, unless you have a real and regular need, in which case the high cost will matter less.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


Return to posts index

Jaanus Henno
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 10, 2013 at 6:27:48 am

Well actually after checking out the Sennheiser EW122P G3 system, it's really worth the investment.

I realized, in that way I can actually eliminate having a big mike on a stand in front of the speaker, just a small lav hang on the clothing and that's it! So that's really convenient and also wireless!

I'm almost ready to go for this system, but there's one question.

I want the signal go to both the PA system and into the camera. Can I have two receivers instead of one?

Or I could plug the receiver into PA and take a feed into my XLR port on the camera. In that way I can have great sound for indoor shoots and have the portable receiver topped on the camera when I'm outdoors. Am I right?

Thank you again for your time, I would have never figured this all out on my own.


Return to posts index



Peter Groom
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 10, 2013 at 7:59:53 am

HI Jaanus
You do realise that a g3 lav will only pick up 1 person on which its fitted? If thats all you need then yes you can have 2 receivers tuned to the same frequency to receive the audio, 1 at the PA and 1 at the camera. Thats perfectly ok and I do it ALL the time.

You CANT have 2 transmitters on the same freq going to 1 receiver tho, just so you know.

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


Return to posts index

Jaanus Henno
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 11, 2013 at 3:16:14 am

Yes Peter, that's just what I meant, two receivers and one transmitter. So it means that I just have to buy one extra receiver and tune it on the same frequency as the other one?


Return to posts index

Peter Groom
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 11, 2013 at 7:54:01 am

Thats correct, although Ive never seen them available as separates. Maybe but Ive not seen it.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


Return to posts index


Craig Alan
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 13, 2013 at 5:46:41 am

will one of these match?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=g3+Receiver&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&...

though at this price you might be better off buying a second kit.

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 13, 2013 at 5:42:27 am

with such a set up does everything stay in sync? any chance of the lav picking up both the talent's voice and then the voice coming out the PA a split second delayed? or is this not a concern?

It would certainly solve problems I have had trying to get a feed from a PA where I am not in control of the levels or not finding the right amount of padding. This way I loan the house a mike and a receiver and I am good to go.

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Jaanus Henno
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 13, 2013 at 9:27:44 am

Yep, these are the ones, although I don't know how Peter has a kit with two receivers, I didn't find any sets like this on the market.

They are actually the cheapest for the quality they offer.


Return to posts index


Peter Groom
Re: Choosing a shotgun mic for shooting video at a distance
on Jan 13, 2013 at 10:26:39 am

HI Jaanus
I dont have "a kit with 2 receivers" but I do have many TX and RX kits (about 10) and therefore just assign the frequencies as i need them.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]