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Mastering LKFS level with WM loudness meter or other plugin

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Martin Michel
Mastering LKFS level with WM loudness meter or other plugin
on Sep 24, 2012 at 7:01:42 pm

Hello everyone,
we are trying to work out the fastest way to comply the 80-minute mixdown of a movie to a specific LKFS-level using WM loudness meter on PT10 HD. However we only manage to get a real-time reading of the LKVS-level while playing, but it doesn`t seem possible to process the entire file. Like this it would be playing 80min material, adjusting compressor settings, runing again for 80 minutes and cracking our heads in no time:)
Is there a way to do this calculation faster than in realtime or even to comply the loudness of the file to a certain LKVS-level? The same accounts for the peaks according to ITU-R BS.1771. Any help would be much appreciated.. Thanks a lot.


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Peter Groom
Re: Mastering LKFS level with WM loudness meter or other plugin
on Sep 24, 2012 at 9:11:09 pm

Arent you supposed to mix it so it complies throughout, not just apply a fix it to the final mix.
NB do you maen LUFS?
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


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Martin Michel
Re: Mastering LKFS level with WM loudness meter or other plugin
on Sep 24, 2012 at 10:24:43 pm

Mh, thanks for participating in the quest. I read somewhere else that LKFS and LUFS are almost the same, at least in our case. But my problem is that the specs require the loudness to be averaged across the entire segment or clip and I'm looking for a way to do this.
And to make things more complicated, we are mixing for cinema and doing a downmix for TV afterwards, so anyway the loudness is different right now.


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Chris Conlee
Re: Mastering LKFS level with WM loudness meter or other plugin
on Sep 25, 2012 at 2:48:37 pm

Sorry I don't have an answer to your original question, but I've been trying to understand this whole process too. I just wanted to add another voice to the confused. If somebody could give a basic rundown of the process, I'd also be very much appreciative.

Chris


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Jean-Christophe Boulay
Re: Mastering LKFS level with WM loudness meter or other plugin
on Sep 27, 2012 at 2:29:34 pm

Hi Martin,

As you're finding, real-time meters aren't ideal when the delivery format having to conform to LKFS levels is not your main deliverable. When it is, you just mix to that level throughout. Most of the tools that will do what you want are far from cheap. A few hardware boxes from Dolby will do this in one go. If that interests you, contact a Dolby rep and they'll be falling over themselves to sell you one.

Nugen Audio make two software options you might want to look into. LMB (bit.ly/qocx9t) is a stand-alone software solution with batch processing capabilities that will automatically correct the audio mixes you drop into it but costs a bundle, while LM-Correct (bit.ly/w1zlkZ) is an Audiosuite plugin that will process your selection in PT and costs "only" 400$. I've tried these out, but only on short-form content. I'm not 100% certain if they include Dialog Intelligence or what the workflow would be for long-form content. Remember that your LKFS measurement should be done on the "anchor element" (dialog) only for anything over 3 minutes long if you're conforming to ATSC A/85 specs. I recommend getting in touch with Nugen with your situation, their service has been stellar in my experience.

To touch on Peter's question of LKFS vs LUFS, they're close but correspond to slightly different norms. LKFS is for ATSC (US & Canada) while LUFS is for EBU (Europe & North Africa). I think there are only slight differences in gating between the two norms.

IHTH,

JC Boulay
Technical Director
Audio Z
Montreal, Canada
http://www.audioz.com


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Martin Michel
Re: Mastering LKFS level with WM loudness meter or other plugin
on Sep 27, 2012 at 7:17:52 pm

Hello Jean-Christophe,

merci beaucoup for this great answer. We will check the demo of LM correct tomorrow.
Your mention of ATSC A/85 puts another spell to my misery. However I had the impression that my specs asked to be meter the loudness across all channels (except LFE) and average across the entire segment or clip.
What you are refering seems to be implemented as automatic feature in the Dolby LM 100..
As I read, LUFS and LKFS is the same since march 2011, only the names are different (ITU startet with LKFS, EBU took the idea and put some changes in, named it LUFS, but the changes where later on adopted by ITU, hence it is the same now).

Cheers

Martin


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Jean-Christophe Boulay
Re: Mastering LKFS level with WM loudness meter or other plugin
on Sep 27, 2012 at 8:47:05 pm

You are correct that the EBU updated their norms and both are now identical but we still have separate measurement names. It wasn't complicated enough as it was, I guess. I mentioned A/85 as I presumed this was for broadcast only, which may not be correct. If your specific specs call for overall level, then measure to that. The delivery specs are always right. Until they're not.

JC Boulay
Technical Director
Audio Z
Montreal, Canada
http://www.audioz.com


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Martin Michel
Re: Mastering LKFS level with WM loudness meter or other plugin
on Sep 29, 2012 at 8:00:58 am

To end this thread from my point of view, I wanted to let you know how it went, at least for the mix (QC has not reported yet). We used WM loundess meter and Dolby 100 (both plugs) and made a record with an approximate setting of compressing/ limiting. That setting proved to be -20 LUFS on WLM (Waves Loundness Meter) and -21 LUFS on the Dolby. So we made a second run with 3dB less gain in the maximizer:
-23 LUFS on WLM and -24 on Dolby. Because of TruePeaks of -2,6 dBFS we lowered the overall volume 0,5dB and now we hope that we are good with that...


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Ty Ford
Re: Mastering LKFS level with WM loudness meter or other plugin
on Sep 30, 2012 at 1:41:43 pm

Hello Martin,

Please do let us know what the QC outcome was!

Thanks for stopping by.

Regards,

Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum Leader


Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Ty Ford Blog: Ty Ford's Blog


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Martin Michel
Re: Mastering LKFS level with WM loudness meter or other plugin
on Feb 21, 2013 at 9:07:56 am

Just to let you know the end of the story.... The film was broadcasted end of 2012 without further complains, so I guess it`s safe to assume it passed QC. Before that, the editor complained when he was doing the master, he felt the mix was to soft. But the audio-department from the TV stated upon request, they prefer softer mixes as bringing up volume is not an issue..
Good luck you all and thanks everybody for interest and contribution...

Cheers

Martin


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Christopher Wilkes
Re: Mastering LKFS level with WM loudness meter or other plugin
on May 16, 2013 at 9:05:12 pm

Late to the party but an economical solution is Channel D Audio Leak
http://www.channld.com/audioleak/
Very economical


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