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Leo Fuchigami
ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 15, 2012 at 3:32:52 am

I have a handheld mic with a 1/4" male head at the end of the cable and I have a receiver with a 1/4" input and lastly a 35ft 1/8" cable.
If I connect the mic to the cable with a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter and the other end of the cable to the receiver with a 1/8" to 1/4" adapter, will the microphone properly receive the phantom power and be amplified?

Thanks everyone!


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Richard Crowley
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 15, 2012 at 5:46:22 am

1) Without details (like make/model) of your microphone and "receiver" (did you mean transmitter?) it is almost impossible to respond with any kind of authority.
2) It is VERY UNUSUAL (I've never seen it) for any microphone with a 1/4 inch phone plug to need phantom power. Again, please identify specifically what microphone you are talking about.
3) It is VERY UNUSUAL (I've never seen it) for a wireless transmitter to have a 1/4 inch phone plug microphone input.
4) Most "belt pack" type transmitters which connect to the microphone with a cable do NOT provide phantom power.
5) If you are trying to extend a 1/4 inch phone connection, why would you not use a 1/4 inch phone cable? Using adapters just adds to complexity and unreliability.
6) It is not clear why you even need an extention if the transmitter is "mobile"?

Sorry, you question makes so little sense I can't even imagine what you are trying to do here. Please give us all the necessary details and tell us what you are trying to do.


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Leo Fuchigami
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 15, 2012 at 5:56:41 am

Sorry for the confusion. There is no transmitter. It is a 35 ft 1/8" male to female cable.

I have this microphone: http://www.amazon.ca/Pyle-Pro-PDMIK1-Professional-Handheld-Microphone/dp/B0...

The location I want to use the mic at has a receiver with a 1/4" input. The problem is that the mic needs to be used about 15 metres away from the receiver, so I require an extension cable. However, the only extension cable I have is the 1/8" cable.

Basically, I'm trying to save money. If I can simply buy a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter and a 1/8" to 1/4" adapter to connect the mic to the receiver using the 1/8" extension cable, that would be the cheapest option (about $6). However, if that does not work, I'd have to buy a 1/4" 35 ft cable, which would cost about $25.

I hope that clarifies the points of confusion!


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Leo Fuchigami
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 15, 2012 at 5:57:57 am

Ah, I see what caused the confusion. By receiver, I meant the receiver/amplifier connected to the speakers, not a wireless receiver/transmitter!


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Brian Reynolds
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 15, 2012 at 7:02:31 am

OK just think of it this way.... small cables are fragile, larger cables are stronger and EVERY connection increases the likely hood of failure.

Next question is how important is the use of this microphone and how will you feel or look if there is a failure? And is it worth the $$$$ you save.

The difference between Knowledge and Wisdom is... Knowledge is the knowing of facts.... Wisdom is the sensible application of good quality knowledge...


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Leo Fuchigami
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 15, 2012 at 7:06:14 am

It's not only an issue of durability, it's also an issue of access. I can buy the adapter tomorrow, but I'd have to order the cables and potentially wait up to 2 weeks. Which means I'll be hosting two events without a mic in the meantime. I do intend to eventually buy a wireless microphone, so saving money now would also be towards that purchase.

So basically, for now, I still want to know if this particular setup will work or not. Would the mic be able to draw power from the amplifier and be amplified with the double adapter and 1/8" cable setup?


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Brian Reynolds
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 15, 2012 at 7:22:34 am

The microphone you have posted a link to DOES NOT need phantom power to operate as it a dynamic microphone.
If you mixer or amplifier has a switch that will deliver phantom power it MUST be turned 'off'


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Peter Groom
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 15, 2012 at 8:58:43 am

You cant get XLR ends. Where do you live. I think they even have a branch of maplins on Mars.

Surely the solution and easy buy is to buy mxlr and fxlr and solder up a cable. Its got 2 mins written on it and will last forever.(nearly)

Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


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Ty Ford
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 16, 2012 at 10:40:59 pm

Hey Brian,

You can have phantom on with a professional dynamic mic. It won't hurt anything, but won't help.

You will have problems if you hook up an unbalanced (consumer) mic to a balanced input with phantom power (If you can actually figure out how to do that). And, you can sometimes damage a professional ribbon mic by connecting it to a mic pre with the phantom turned on.

Regards,

Ty


Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Ty Ford Blog: Ty Ford's Blog


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Richard Crowley
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 17, 2012 at 10:18:55 am

Phantom power on an unbalanced (2-terminal) connection, (if one can even manage such an abortion) will FRY any dynamic or ribbon microphone. Dynamic mics rely on having BOTH of their signal leads connected to the 48V, for a net current of zero. But if you ground one side (as for unbalanced connection), the 48V passes right through the coil which is a VERY VERY BAD THING.


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Richard Crowley
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 15, 2012 at 3:22:25 pm

To directly answer your question, yes you can use your 1/8 inch extension cable with the appropriate adapters on each end. As others have observed, this microphone requires NO phantom power, so that is not even an issue here.

HOWEVER, this kind of kludge is just ASKING for trouble and is NOT recommended if you want any kind of reliability.


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David Watson
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 16, 2012 at 5:28:32 am

But if all the cables involved are mono (1/4" or 1/8") and the adapters are mono 1/4-1/8, then I don't see why this solution would be a problem as a temp solution for 2 events? It's if you have to deal with stereo to mono mixing that you can run into issues.

David H. Watson
dEhiN Entertainment


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Richard Crowley
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 16, 2012 at 6:35:00 am

"It's if you have to deal with stereo to mono mixing that you can run into issues."

Mot really. A mic connection is a mic connection. Mono vs. stereo is a matter of HOW MANY connections, not the fundamental issues of connectivity.


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David Watson
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 16, 2012 at 6:41:47 am

Let me clarify: I meant when using adapters from one size to another, and you have to deal with stereo to mono it can be a problem.

For example, when working with all mono and going from 1/4" to 1/8" using an adapter, all you are doing is sending the same mono (1-ch) signal through a smaller cable diameter size, so the adapter just needs to act as a gateway from the larger diameter to the smaller one.

But when working with stereo to mono as well as diameter size, the adapter needs to mix the stereo (2-ch) signal to a mono (1-ch) signal. This is where it depends on the adapter. I've used adapters that only take one channel of the stereo signal and use it as the mono (usually the L channel), which can cause problems when you also need to worry about the R channel signal.

David H. Watson
dEhiN Entertainment


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Richard Crowley
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 16, 2012 at 7:12:06 am

Yes, dealing with 2-pin vs. 3-pin connections is an issue in some cases. Please remember that 3-pin does not imply "stereo". I believe it is misleading to refer to adapters and cables as "mono" or "stereo".

In this specific case, the (still unidentified) receiver (presumably the power amplifier in this "system") has only a 1/4 inch input and it seems quite safe to assume it is probably NOT a proper balanced (3-pin) input.

There are very few proper 3-terminal MIC inputs that use 1/4 inch connectors. For example the Tascam DR-680 which uses them for the 5th and 6th inputs for space reasons.

Likewise, the use of a single connector for stereo is typically the domain of headphones, earbuds, and low-end microphones with 3.5mm mini phone plugs (consumer camcorders, DSLRs, voice recorders, etc.)


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Peter Groom
Re: ghost power and 1/4" to 1/8" to 1/4"
on Aug 16, 2012 at 9:20:21 pm

Agreed Richard
I always refer to 3 and 2 pole connections as balanced and unbalanced.

For my advice, dont use adaptors-ever. Get the right cable and always stay balanced.
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer


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