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Audio Set up

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Zohra Allouani
Audio Set up
on May 27, 2011 at 6:21:13 pm

I've put together a potential audio set up for a short film, although I'm completely new to audio so I'm not sure if I've got it right. So far:

- A couple microphones, hypercardioid for interior dialogue, directional shot gun for exterior. Various Accessories (windscreen, boom, shock mount etc etc)
- Connected to a field mixer, perhaps Sound Devices 552
- Connected to a recorder, maybe renting a Nagra V or Zoom h4, depending on funding.
- for syncing, a clapperboard

Have I got anything wrong or missed something essential?


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Noah Kadner
Re: Audio Set up
on May 27, 2011 at 8:21:44 pm

lavs, cabling, someone who knows how to use them.

I'd highly hiring a sound recordist with their own gear rather than renting sound gear and then figuring out how to use it. Your production will sound a lot more pro and you can concentrate on something other than recording sound. Which is probably not what you're particularly exciting about doing on a film.

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Canon 7D.


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Zohra Allouani
Re: Audio Set up
on May 27, 2011 at 8:36:51 pm

Thanks

Hmm, yeah it would be nice to have a sound recordist but they seem invariably expensive, the budget's already been stretched by crew members, seems better to just figure it all out, can't be that hard. I've got until september/october. If I can't get good sound by then I'll be forced to hire one


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Richard Crowley
Re: Audio Set up
on May 27, 2011 at 9:07:11 pm

If you can identify and articulate the kinds of shots you anticipate for this production, you can probably get some more focused advice from the assembled experts here. Also identify the camera(s) and other key parts of your camera, lighting, grip, etc. equipment kits. And your proposed budget.


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Zohra Allouani
Re: Audio Set up
on May 27, 2011 at 9:07:03 pm

Yep, will do, thanks. Funding is out of my control and is being determined by the producer, but it seems that it'll probably be around $2000. For other equipment I'm going the DSLR route (5D or 7D), lighting is currently unspecified, will probably use available lighting when possible, and DSLRs don't need as much lighting as film cameras. As for grip a dolly and tracks, a jib and a zacuto sniper rig


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Noah Kadner
Re: Audio Set up
on May 27, 2011 at 9:43:00 pm

That's $2K for the sound gear? You should consider renting if that's the budget. What you want to have on hand at the barest minimum are kits like these:

http://www.allmobilevideo.com/rentals/R_audio_fk.htm

Most rental houses consider 3 or 4 days a week's rental so 2K would get you the midrange kits listed there for plenty of time to shoot a super low budget project. On the other hand, if you were to purchase all of that stuff it would be a lot more than 2 grand. For example the 416 shotgun mic alone is $1,000.

So if I *had* to buy I'd go for something like the first kit listed on that rental page or get the closest used/or next best thing gear I could scrounge.

And again not to press the point but you really would do yourself a massive favor to at least get some training from a sound professional. Even if it's a one-day crash course at the rental house. Sound is not something you just figure out osmotically from the instruction manual. There are tons of little techniques and tricks that make all the difference for what most folks around here would consider even 'acceptable' sound. Cuz if the sound sucks your movie sucks. :)

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Canon 7D.


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Zohra Allouani
Re: Audio Set up
on May 27, 2011 at 9:54:08 pm

Yeah I was always considering renting, had a look around bhphoto, it's all very expensive.

I've had help from some people one of them being a sound recordist themselves, learnt about room tone, levels, clipping, booming etc, and I'll go see if there's some sort of training I can get as well, thanks for the suggestion


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David Jones
Re: Audio Set up
on May 27, 2011 at 9:55:54 pm

Hi Zohra,

Noah is right, that stuff will cost you A LOT more than $2,000...even used!

And while you can figure out how to use the equipment, you may not know how to record good sound. Let me present some problems you'll run into: various hums and noises, RF interference, echo, low-end rumble (if you don't know what to listen for on this one, than you may not realize you're recording it until you get back in post by which time, it's too late to fix it!). The question is, do you know how to handle each of these issues? If not, than AT LEAST a crash course is in order, if not outright hiring someone who can deal with, and eliminate each one of these problems as they occur.

Dave J


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Zohra Allouani
Re: Audio Set up
on May 27, 2011 at 10:11:58 pm

Yeah I know of the main problems and solutions, like the ones in this audio scratch-the-surface introduction http://mubi.com/topics/30-minute-film-school-v-the-good-the-bad-and-the-aud.... Plenty of time to get acquainted with the problems and the common solutions. If not I'll hire a recordist with their equipment


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Rob Neidig
Re: Audio Set up
on May 30, 2011 at 8:19:02 pm

<>

Wow, in 4 or 5 months you can learn everything there is to know about audio. I'm impressed. Can't wait to hear how great your movie sounds. Silly me, I've been doing audio for 30 years and there are still new things I'm learning all the time. I guess I must be slow.

Have fun!

Rob

Rob Neidig
R&R Media Productions
Eugene, Oregon


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Zohra Allouani
Re: Audio Set up
on May 30, 2011 at 8:27:29 pm

Rob - Aha, of course I'm not going to learn everything there is to know about audio in that time, but enough to do an alrightish/make do and mend job, hopefully. You've said so yourself you don't know everything about audio (although most probably way more than I'll ever know) and yet you're presumably hired to do audio

Thanks, Ty Ford, I'll look into that book, it looks very helpful


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Noah Kadner
Re: Audio Set up
on May 31, 2011 at 9:33:58 pm

I believe the point being made was most folks don't really feel all that proud of an "alrightish/made do mend" final product when they've spent a year+ making it... I know that's not my #1 goal. Or what was it about an ounce of prevention's value???

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Canon 7D.


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Zohra Allouani
Re: Audio Set up
on May 31, 2011 at 10:59:06 pm

Hmm, my primary goal is to tell a story without the audio getting in the way by being distractingly bad, I see good audio and good cinematography as good grammar, that's all I want to achieve really


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Ty Ford
Re: Audio Set up
on May 31, 2011 at 11:44:17 pm

Having the right tools is important. Equally important is how well they are used.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide





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Noah Kadner
Re: Audio Set up
on May 31, 2011 at 5:39:45 pm

[Rob Neidig] "Wow, in 4 or 5 months you can learn everything there is to know about audio. I'm impressed. Can't wait to hear how great your movie sounds. Silly me, I've been doing audio for 30 years and there are still new things I'm learning all the time. I guess I must be slow.

Have fun!"


lol- tell me about it...

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Canon 7D.


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Ty Ford
Re: Audio Set up
on May 28, 2011 at 1:06:40 am

Hello Zohra and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.

Drop the Nagra and consider a Sound Devices 744T. If you have no more than three simultaneous sources, and you don't need to iso them, drop the 552 with it's two channel recorder and get a 302 and a 702.

It sounds like you may be past this, but..
http://web.mac.com/tyreeford/Site/Ty_Ford_Audio_Bootcamp_Field_Guide.html

Having good gear is important. Knowing how best to use it is imperative. Having the right mic two inches closer that you think it should be can make all the difference in the world. Good audio is not trivial. Unless you know, you don't know. :)

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide





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