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Sennheisser Wireless Hop from SD302 to Canon XF305 - advice

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Matt Shakespeare
Sennheisser Wireless Hop from SD302 to Canon XF305 - advice
on Feb 24, 2011 at 5:02:54 pm

Hi Guys!

I'm Producing a low-ish budget ob doc for broadcast and have used this method of shooting and sound recording on a few films with my Director / Cameraman over the years and it's worked well. I'm not a full on Soundie by any means but learning and have a question about our set up.

I've got a Sound Devices 302 mixer. I have two new Sennheiser Evolutions G3s for contributors - one into CH1 & other into CH2. I then have an ME66 directional mic on a boom pole plugged into CH3 input on the mixer.

I pan all the channels to the Left and then have plugged in a new Sennheiser G3 transmitter to the SD302 mixer's left output.

The camera is the new Canon XF305.

I have plugged in the Sennheiser Evolutions G3 Receiver into Channel 2 of the camera. Channel one has a directional top-mic plugged in as back up if wireless link goes down.

The Shooter Director likes this set up as it gives him freedom of movement in difficult circumstances.

So, that's the set-up. I got hold of a cable female XLR to mini-jack to connect the mixer output (line level) to the Wireless TX input. I thought this was a shorted to the ground line level cable but am not sure now so ordered another.

We had a young sound recordist come in and he suggested setting up like this - Mixer Line to Transmitter on -60db sensitivity. The receiver (AF Out) on the camera is on a 0db setting. The input 2 where the receiver is plugged in is switched to mic level input.

I send tone to camera from mixer using the wireless TX and adjust dials on side of camera so the level on camera hits -20db. This seems to work and the levels on the camera for voice seem to peak at around -10 and down to -20 at lowest level.

The sound guy said he thought this best 'gain staging'.


What is confusing me is that I think the Mixer is sending Line Level but we've got the TX's sensitivity down to -60db before it's sent to camera. If we have the TX sensitivity at say -20ish or even -30ish the orange light 'peak' is very sensitive comes on a lot - bit hot - very hot! I don't quite understand the logic. If the cable from mixer to TX is the correct one for Line input to TX what should the sensitivity levels on the Sennheiser TX be at for comfort?

So in my basic knowledge and logic it seems the signal comes out of mixer at line - taken down to -60 at TX which is mic and sent to camera set at mic input. Is this the best way?

The audio does seem ok and levels on camera ok but because I don't understand the logic of it, it worries me that I could be doing it better?

If anyone cast any light on this I would be very very grateful as we are going abroad next week. I like to learn and use the kit as best possible. It's a set up we really like and the Sennheisers have never let us down before.

Any thoughts you may have would be truly appreciated!

Ta
Shakes


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Eric Toline
Re: Sennheisser Wireless Hop from SD302 to Canon XF305 - advice
on Feb 24, 2011 at 8:02:04 pm

Setting the output level on the mixer is a better way. You can change the 302's output in the internal menu. Or you buy a 50db plug in pad that connects to your mixer's output xlr and that will drop the level from line to mic. Once you do that set the tx to -20 and the rx to -20.

Eric


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Matt Shakespeare
Re: Sennheisser Wireless Hop from SD302 to Canon XF305 - advice
on Feb 24, 2011 at 9:06:50 pm

Is that better than line out then setting sensitivity to -60? What confuses me is that the cable from mixer to tx is meant to be for line level.

If i kept it the way it is would it still be ok? What do I gain by setting the mixer output to mic level?

Thank you for the advice!

Shakey


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Matt Shakespeare
Re: Sennheisser Wireless Hop from SD302 to Canon XF305 - advice
on Feb 24, 2011 at 10:01:02 pm

Thank you!

I\'ve got a few more Qs if that\'s ok?

Is the way i\'m doing ok anyway if the levels on the Canon peak around -10? What\'s the advantage of putting the mixer to mic level and the TX and RX to -20? Is mic level on mixer -40?

Also, Sennheiser say the TX input and RX outputs should accomodate Line and Mic. So shouldn\'t it cope with Line out from mixer? Bit confusing

Shakey


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Matt Shakespeare
Re: Sennheisser Wireless Hop from SD302 to Canon XF305 - advice
on Feb 24, 2011 at 11:01:50 pm

Hi Eric

Thanks for the advice.

I'm new to this forum and replied to you earlier but not sure it was sent so I'm sending another reply.

I just have some supplementary questions. Firstly, if my levels on the camera are bouncing between -20 and -10 it hte way I have it set up still ok (camera input switched to mic level)? What are the advantages of setting the Mixer to mic, I read a lot of Audio advice who say use Line output where possible - I'm confused. What would the Mic output setting be on 302 is it -40db?

Also, the Sennheiser G3s I have been told the TX and RX accept Line input and output. However, this doesn't seem to be the case as I am having to set my TX to -60 because it seems very hot otherwise. Is the XLR - min jack cable wrong?


I hope you don't mind me asking, I just like to understand the logic!

Thank you!!

Shakey


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Eric Toline
Re: Sennheisser Wireless Hop from SD302 to Canon XF305 - advice
on Feb 25, 2011 at 12:58:56 am

The line in/out part of the tx&rx is used by connecting the input signal to the ring part of the TRS connector. Once you do that you will bypass all the extra pre-amps (tx & rx preamp, camera mic preamp) in the chain.

Any XLR connector used should be wired unbalanced (pin 1 & 3 connected to ground) pin 2 which is the audio signal get's connected to the tip for mic level or the ring for line level.

Line level output is always a good idea where you start & end with a line level signal such as mixer out to recorder in.


Eric


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David Rae
Re: Sennheisser Wireless Hop from SD302 to Canon XF305 - advice
on Mar 21, 2011 at 3:41:55 am

Hi All - New poster to CC

I've been dealing with this set up with mixed results - Linking my SD 302 mixer to various cameras via a pair of Sennheiser ew 100 G3's. I'm going SD302 Tape Out (3 pin TA3) >G3 TX line in (wired with signal to ring of jack plug).
The RX level to cam seems low for line level inputs of 'big' (Digi Beta) cameras but level is ok for mic input. Levels are good for small cams.

My main problem is low, intermittent noise (only through the G3 hop/link) when touching the mixer/wireless bag especially when metal to metal ie ring of harness touching mixer case. It reminds me of radio static.

I made the current lead according to the info near the end of the thread at PSW -(see link below) ie: signal to ring, tip and sleeve both to ground.

I'm wondering if the mic power voltage (5v) on the tip could affect the line signal
when it is grounded.

- maybe needs a resistor or capacitor??

I've made my own leads for years but would appreciate some feedback....back to the soldering iron.


There is a related thread here
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?t=msg&th=47494/0/

Thanks DR


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David Rae
Re: Sennheisser Wireless Hop from SD302 to Canon XF305 - advice
on Mar 22, 2011 at 11:53:13 am

Following on from my previous post -

I just did a job today using the G3s to link my SD302 to a Sony EX3 camera.
The RXs were set to -12db giving good level to the cam mic input (knob set to 5)
- Line input would be ideal but I couldn't get enough level from the RX to drive the cam line input without having to turn it's gain to near max (10).
My noise problem (stray RF?) wasn't apparent (although I wasn't able to check in an ideal monitoring situation.
When checking the system the day before I did notice that the noise did drop quite a lot after I put fresh batteries in the SD302 - the old batts were low but still functioning without the LED warning flash.
Could an RF choke on these unbalanced leads help? Does anyone have any ideas re the effect of mixer battery voltage on the noise source.
Any more diagnostic strategies?

DR


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james Brown
Re: Sennheisser Wireless Hop from SD302 to Canon XF305 - advice
on Mar 28, 2011 at 5:02:29 am

Hello good people,this is my first day on here and i really need your help to connect my audio and video equipments for a short film we trying to shoot. I have the following equipments:
1-Sennheiser MKH416 microphone
1-Marantz PMD661 Portable SD Recorder
1-Sound Devices 302 (3-Ch Portable Field Mixer)
1-SONY HVR HD1000N (i was rip off on this camera pay $3000)
1-Canon EOS 7D Digital SLR Camera
1-BeachTek DXA-4P Dual XLR Adapter
1-Sony MDR-7506
1-Boom pole
1-25foot xlr cable
1-20-foot Betacam Breakaway cable

My question what setup can i use for the above equipment? Please help me.


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Ed Denton
Re: Sennheisser Wireless Hop from SD302 to Canon XF305 - advice
on May 25, 2011 at 9:28:53 pm

Seem like a strange idea. The whole point of using a good mixer like the 302 is to make use of the nice pre-amps so dropping the level out of the mixer and amplifying it again on the camera pre-amps is not a good idea. Should be line out from the mixer and line in on the camera. Set your TX and input levels around that.

Sound Devices 552
Lectrosonics UM400a/UCR411a
Sanken COS-11 D
Rode NTG-3
Oktava MK-012


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