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Microphone recommendation

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Peter Groom
Microphone recommendation
on Jan 10, 2011 at 10:32:06 am

HI
Im looking for a microphone recommendation. Installation sound is well outside my usual studio habitat.

Basically Im suggesting that my parents retirement village upgrade their small, simple pa system. Currently they have a cheapo non branded mic that goes into a combo amp/speaker on wheels, used when people come into the centre to give talks on knitting etc etc. The problem is that its too lo fi, with real pop and bass problems and the single speaker has to be cranked up so everyone can hear, resulting in the obvious howl round problems youd expect.

im suggesting
An installed speaker set (probably 6 or 8 small speakers) like JBL control 1 size or Bose cubes. These can be installed much closer to the audience, on wall and ceiling , so no one is very far from a speaker ever. So a lot less need for gain.

A small mixer (spriit) folio notepad to interface the mic and basic eq which ill set up , and an amp to drive the speakers.

My question is for reccommendations of a mic. it needs to be quite non pop succeptable, dynamic, and fairly rugged and wired (I want to keep the complexity to an absolute minimum), and be available widely in the uK.

Any thoughts guys

Peter


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Ty Ford
Re: Microphone recommendation
on Jan 10, 2011 at 1:25:24 pm

Hello Peter,

something like this...http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=96

A couple of things about popping. Add a simple foam pop filter.

Coach them not to eat the mic and/or set it up so they can't get close enough to it. 4-6 inches away should work.

Some people seem to think they need to hear themselves on the speakers to feel they are being heard. This becomes problematic with people with hearing problems. The one speaker setup you refer to may be part of this problem,

I like the idea of side or ceiling speakers, but try to make sure the placement is far enough from the mic position to keep feedback from happening.

In addition, you may also want to install a T-coil loop amp and wire for residents who use hearing aids with T-coils. More on that here. http://www.ampetronic.com/

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide





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Jordan Wolf
Re: Microphone recommendation
on Jan 10, 2011 at 3:32:49 pm

The best way to combat feedback is through proper mic placement and selection AND proper speaker placement and selection. Their interaction will determine much about how stable a system is.

A good microphone will have better and more-uniform rejection off-axis, so feedback will be much less of an issue. I recommend a hypercardioid pattern or supercardioid pattern. Just make sure the people speaking keep within 1 inch of the grill.

A good speaker, likewise, will have better control over it;s polar pattern. Depending on the room, one specific dispersion pattern (90x60, 75x75, etc.) may be more appropriate than another. If you can get the speakers out from behind the microphone, many of your problems will be solved. If you need to fly (hang) the boxes, don't do it yourself. If they fall and hurt/kill someone, YOU are liable for it. Only boxes that are meant to be flown should be flown - and NEVER, EVER, EVER FLY THEM BY THE HANDLES. (Sorry, it's a touchy topic where there is no room for dispute - safety is always first).

Now, for the install itself: basically, you want to make the system as easy to use as possible while providing only enough end user control to enable them to do what they need to. How you go about this is entirely dependent on the budget you have to work with and the time/skills you possess.

I guess what I'm trying to get across is that a sound system install, even a small one, is not necessarily an easy thing to take on. There are many variables that you must consider, some you might not even have though of.

That said, I recommend bringing this topic up on another forum that is better-suited to dealing with such things. You'll have to register and use your real name, but it is the best source of web info and advice for your question. I'm on there, too, and you can look me up by my user name: howlingwolf487.

Good luck!

Wolf
<><


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Ty Ford
Re: Microphone recommendation
on Jan 10, 2011 at 3:51:43 pm

Wolfie,

I think we have room for it here. Go for it.

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS: HNY

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide





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Jordan Wolf
Re: Microphone recommendation
on Jan 10, 2011 at 7:22:11 pm

Happy New Year to you, too, Ty.

May this year be even better than the last!

Wolf
<><


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Peter Groom
Re: Microphone recommendation
on Jan 10, 2011 at 3:57:58 pm

Thanks guys.
Ty
Id already factored in money for an inductive loop. Seems ovbious bearing in mind the ages of the audience. Mic wise, the one you suggested would need to be mounted on a lectern or something. They dont have that, and I think a quality handheld will be better given its undefined use, but mostly speaking.

Jordan
Ive no intention of installing myself. Im a studio dubbing mixer and this is outside my remit. That said i can help them out a bit and make some suggestions, but ultimately a install company would be doing it.
Myidea is to increase the number of speakers spread throughout the room, but have them all directed away from the stage area. Buy having lots of units, the spl from any 1 can be a lot less reducing feedback issues. Theyll all be in front of the mic, never behind.

And lastly, yes you can pop in even the best mic, but a bit of training in its use will go a long way.

Cheers
Peter

Peter


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Ty Ford
Re: Microphone recommendation
on Jan 10, 2011 at 4:25:25 pm

Peter,

Not all hearing aids have T-coils. A survey of the members would be prudent. They can use boxes about the size of a box of Marlboros with headphones, but most folks don't like being seen wearing hearing devices.

So you'll use a floor stand for the mic? If so and they'll be talking at a table, I like a stand with a small arm for poking it toward them. Guitar Center sells them over here for about $20 USD.

The mic, why not a good old SM58?

If you have the budget, maybe a Sennheiser 431.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide





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Peter Groom
Re: Microphone recommendation
on Jan 10, 2011 at 4:36:16 pm

Aah. Good steer about the survey of audience members. Id not realised that all hearing aids dont have a T position.

Yes the SM58 would be a possible. The sennheiser is probably a bit pricey and I doubt theyll appreciate the difference, but there are others in the sennheiser range to consider in around £100 mark.

I think that a table stand will probably end up being favoured. And ill get a good foam pop shield to go with it.
Peter

Peter


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Ty Ford
Re: Microphone recommendation
on Jan 11, 2011 at 1:47:30 pm

In one loop install in a church, they decided to make a smaller (more affordable) space for t-coil owners.

There is some knowledge required to get it right, but it's sort of interesting when you hear it. AM radio Lo-Fi, but much better than trying to use a hearing aid in a large space with someone talking or even talking through a PA.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide





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Jordan Wolf
Re: Microphone recommendation
on Jan 10, 2011 at 7:19:14 pm

Peter,

I'm glad that you've got a good head on your shoulders - I've heard similar stories from other people who get in too deep and end up paying for it; I didn't want you to get yourself into that.

Ty's recommendation of the venerable SM58 is perfectly fine, but you should check out Sennheiser (e8** series) and Audio-Technica also.

You have something in mind, but it may not be the best solution for the space - a site survey is the best way to determine what will be the most beneficial.

The main key factors to consider are:
1. What maximum SPL is required and at what distance?
2. What type of coverage is necessary? This is where the room dimensions come into play - is the seating set up along the long wall or short wall, etc.?
3. What is the budget and is there any existing equipment that can be used to augment the new equipment?

I think that will get everyone on the same page with you. :-)

Wolf
<><


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Peter Groom
Re: Microphone recommendation
on Jan 13, 2011 at 2:13:22 pm

UPDATE

Ok so i went last night with 6 Jbl control 1's, amp and a selection of mics. The senn e series suggested and also an SM58, and a couple of others. Was able to demonstarate to them very clearly what the improvement would be in their room with more, smaller speakers working less hard, and better quality microphones.
Theve now appointed an installer, and are getting 2 radio mics with 6 jbls mounted in pairs down the hall, and amazingly, the hall already had a new induction loop system installed, just no one knew it was there!!.

job done.
peter

Peter


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Ty Ford
Re: Microphone recommendation
on Jan 13, 2011 at 5:14:46 pm

Peter,

Excellent!

About the loop; I'm not surprised. A church called me in and I found their system hadn't been working properly for a while.

Regards,

Ty

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide





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Peter Groom
Re: Microphone recommendation
on Jan 13, 2011 at 5:36:29 pm

yes. this loop was installed when the place was built and seems no one even knew it was there until i pointed it out last night. Just needs a mains cable and a feed from a sound system or mic.
Peter

Peter


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