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Ty or all, question about latency

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Tom Maloney
Ty or all, question about latency
on Jul 13, 2010 at 3:31:07 am

Hi all, What do you folks do when you run into a consumer or prosumer camcorder and trying to get you audio into it. Last week I had a job where they had a little Canon HD camera with a Beachtec connected. I took the outs from my SD302 into the Beachtec and took the return from the headphone jack from the camera. I ran tone and levels looked good on the camera’s built in monitor. When I tested with a mic there was a huge delay, I would say worse that the old Panasonic 100, we tried a playback and I could hardly hear my audio over the terrible loud buzz. I told the DP to use a different camera because I could not guarantee any audio to this camera, we used a different one. The DP said he had heard that noise before but it is not on the tape. I don’t think he had a real grasp of the cameras operation, but what do you think caused the huge latency problem. I think the camera was a Hd20 or something. These little cameras are getting harder and harder for audio, guess I have to talk people into a dual system and just use the camera for a scratch track.

Thanks all
Tom


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Michael Martin
Re: Ty or all, question about latency
on Jul 13, 2010 at 4:42:27 am

My question to you would be how long are your cable runs and how many devices are chained together? Long cable runs can cause a slight delay and hopping from device to device in a chain can cause a delay, why use the beach tech at all?

-Michael Martin
Martin Media Designs
Location Sound/Audio Post Production/Sound Design


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Tom Maloney
Re: Ty or all, question about latency
on Jul 13, 2010 at 12:03:34 pm

They had to use the BT because the camera only has 1/8 audio input , no,XLRs

Thanks
Tom

" EVERY DAY IS A GIFT, which is why we call it the present"

Alfred Hitchcock


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Ty Ford
Re: Ty or all, question about latency
on Jul 13, 2010 at 1:28:20 pm

Hello Tom and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.

Michael, sound travels almost at the speed of light on a cable. The length of cable will not be a factor.

Some mindiDV cameras exhibit noticeable delay when shooting in 24 fps mode. Annoying, but It's just the way they are. The real test is what happens when you play the camera back or transfer in post. I'm pretty sure the delay was only in the headphone out during record.

Your 302 can feed a 1/8' mnin TRS and that camera directly. You just need the right cable to do it. Make sure you're in the right output mode for the 302. Some consumer camcorders say they record line level, but it's consumer -10 line level. The +4 from the 302 will overdrive those cameras. In that case, you need to switch to mic level. That takes the beachtek out of the flow. I don't like these "adapter boxes." I think they create more problems than they solve.

Regards,

Ty Ford





Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Sam Mallery
Re: Ty or all, question about latency
on Jul 13, 2010 at 9:09:56 pm

You said you had your headphone return plugged into the camera. Did you monitor your return channel on the 302 when you were recording? Did you hear the buzzing sound then, or only on playback?

http://www.sam-mallery.com


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Tom Maloney
Re: Ty or all, question about latency
on Jul 15, 2010 at 2:27:45 am

Thanks all for all the good answers. Ty I do have a 1/8 adaptor for my snake , wanted to have the return for my headphones. I only heard the loud buzz on playnack not while recording.

" EVERY DAY IS A GIFT, which is why we call it the present"

Alfred Hitchcock


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Ty Ford
Re: Ty or all, question about latency
on Jul 15, 2010 at 1:34:46 pm

Tom,

If you weren't hearing buzz while recording but do hear it on playback and your headphones were plugged into the camera headphone output during both,

1. You weren't listening closely enough. It was there and you missed it.
or
2. There's something going on in your camera after the headphone circuit.

Try playing back the tape in another camera to see if the buzz is in the camera or on the tape.

If the buzz is still there and you don't hearing it while recording, it's time for a trip to the service dept.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Will Salley
Re: Ty or all, question about latency
on Jul 16, 2010 at 2:03:07 am

[Tom Maloney] " told the DP to use a different camera because I could not guarantee any audio to this camera, we used a different one."

Keep saying that until they get the message.

The little consumer-level camcorders are great for consumers and student projects, and maybe even an indie film project, but they fall way short on the necessary audio tools for day-in/day-out production. My standard disclaimer (which I put into writing), is that if they choose to use a camera without balanced XLR inputs, readable and working meters, and low-latency and working headphone amps, they do so at their own risk. (This obviously rules out a bunch of cameras, mostly the Panasonics and almost all JVC) I assume no responsibility for the audio. Yes, I've lost a few jobs but I also gained a few as some producers appreciate the professionalism.

Even double-system with the larger Panasonics (3000 &5000) is scary because the time code output bit is locked to 29.97 even shooting at 24 or 25. The TC reads 24 fps, but the bit flag sends it as 29.97, so recorders such as the 744T cannot accurately sync to these cameras (unless they have fixed it). My XDCAM EX even has a noisy headphone amp but it's good enough to make a judgement on usable takes.

Back to clappers.






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