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Keith Betts
live event audio
on Apr 14, 2010 at 4:28:58 pm

Shooting several dance recitals in a few months. Single camera located in rear of auditorium and audio console in front. I want to get an audio feed from the mixer and don't want to deal with running cable for such a distance. Any suggestions on reasonably priced wireless transmitters and receivers? Can they do the job?

In addition, with a line feed from the mixer I get clean audio of the music and microphone but miss the audience applause. I usually run 2 channels of audio. One from the mixer and one being the camera mic. Now I've read in this forum that is not the way to go. How can I best record clean audio for the music and introductions and still get the audience response? With a single camera mic the noise from the audience sometimes "overpowers" the music on stage. Looking for some sage advice!


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Ty Ford
Re: live event audio
on Apr 15, 2010 at 6:10:41 pm

[Keith Betts] "Shooting several dance recitals in a few months. Single camera located in rear of auditorium and audio console in front. I want to get an audio feed from the mixer and don't want to deal with running cable for such a distance. Any suggestions on reasonably priced wireless transmitters and receivers? Can they do the job? "

Hello Keith and welcome to the Cow AUdio Forum.

I don't know about sage, but we do have some nice cow patties.

Hardwired is actually better. How far do you need?

Record that to one track of your camera and use you camera mic for the audience. You will have to adjust levels in post, but that's pretty much a no brainer. Also, to be exceptional, if you're going to have a mix of the house and camera mic on at the same time, you should slide the camera mic track a few frames earlier (depending on how far you are from the speakers) so it syncs up with the console feed.

I did just that on this clip: http://gallery.me.com/tyreeford#100060

The camera mic was about 30-40 feet from the PA. the two channels sounded like cow pie when played as they came out of the camera because of the time difference. I aligned the camera mic track with the console feed and pulled it down so it just gave a hint of PA and concert space. Does that help?

Regards,

Ty Ford


Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Keith Betts
Re: live event audio
on Apr 15, 2010 at 7:34:00 pm

I knew from past experience that hardwire offered better audio quality but was just wondering if wireless technology had advanced enough to give it a try. The mix in your clip was excellent and just what I want to achieve. Haven't been to the venue yet so I don't know the cable run length but I'm dreading the effort to do it and secure it.

What I've found is that other video production companies shooting dance competitions often just use an on camera mic. If I were to do that where do you recommend I located the mic?

On my last recital shoot I ran 2 audio feeds as you suggested. However when the clip was imported into my editing system I found the camcorder had mixed the 2 channels. I want to be able to manipulate each channel separately as you recommended. I hope that is just a menu adjustment in my camcorder. Thanks.


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Ty Ford
Re: live event audio
on Apr 15, 2010 at 7:58:07 pm

or an import function on your software..

Damnit it Jim, I'm an engineer not a miracle worker!

I wouldn't use the mic for the full record of the music. It'll sound like music played over a PA system.

You ask for advice and then try to do what you want to do. I'm sayin' don't do that.

Regards,

Ty Ford


Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Thax Clave
Re: live event audio
on Apr 16, 2010 at 12:15:17 am

[Keith Betts] " when the clip was imported into my editing system I found the camcorder had mixed the 2 channels."

I'd double-check that.

Unless the camera has a mix function, you likely just needed to pan the two channels apart in the edit software.



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Jordan Wolf
Re: live event audio
on Apr 19, 2010 at 5:39:19 am

"I knew from past experience that hardwire offered better audio quality but was just wondering if wireless technology had advanced enough to give it a try."

Well, you're not going to get it for cheap. The wireless system you're looking for is "companderless" and comes at a fairly steep price for that innovation.

Wired gives you:

1. Less stuff to go wrong
2. Fewer things to sync up and maintain
3. Lower cost
4. Longer transmission distance (say, oh...600ft or more; 1,000ft isn't out of the question if you use the right type of cable and connections)



Wolf
<><


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Loui Henry
Re: live event audio
on Jul 16, 2010 at 11:36:18 pm

Hi
Do you know what microphone to use to capture live audio (rock concert)
with my Panasonic AG-HPX 171 DVCPro HD P2 Cam?
Is the Sennheizer Wireless SKM 100-865 G3D a good choice
I really want to look for a quality stereo mic for this camera
Anyone got experience or ideas? ( if I don't use feed from the mixboard)

LH


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Ty Ford
Re: live event audio
on Jul 17, 2010 at 12:08:05 am

Hello Louie and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.

Getting good quality audio at a rock concert with a camera mounted mic is basically impossible.

Most people I tell that to don't believe me until they try it. The problems are LOUDNESS, mix and stereo placement. If your camera is on sticks and you find the right place to put the sticks in the sound field, you can do OK, but the vocals will always sound like they are coming out of a PA instead of a direct feed.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Joel Servetz
Re: live event audio
on Apr 17, 2010 at 6:57:33 pm

Keith, you didn't mention what camcorder you're using. Is it a consumer/prosumer type that combines the left/right audio channels or a more professional model with separate controls? Do you have a mixer so that you can control the two channels separately and then send the feed to the camcorder? If your camcorder combines the two channels, do you have a digital recorder like a Zoom H4N or similar so that you can do double system recording and then manage the audio tracks during editing the way Ty suggested (a lot trickier but a way around a camcorder that combines tracks)? Do you have a shotgun mic. that you can use instead of the camcorder mic to record the audience?
I've used wireless sends, either plug-on or beltpack transmitters with the appropriate cables, for many years when running cables just wasn't feasible. Cable is always better, just not always possible. But beware, always have a backup plan (could be the shotgun).

Joel Servetz
RGB Media Services, LLC
Sarasota, Fl
videobyjoel@aol.com


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