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"unclippable" (Premix) vs "compressor/limiter" ENG-44

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Dave Messinger
"unclippable" (Premix) vs "compressor/limiter" ENG-44
on Aug 19, 2009 at 5:40:46 pm

I have read posts on both of these - but never saw this addressed.

Is there an advantage to Sound Device Premix's "unclippable" capabilities over SignVideo's ENG-44's "compressor/limiter" function ?

I like the 4 channel capability of the ENG-44 or 2 channel's on the Premix, but I am more concerned about the best way for controlling the audio.

Thanks


Dave Messinger
http://vfwTech.com


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Ty Ford
Re: "unclippable" (Premix) vs "compressor/limiter" ENG-44
on Aug 20, 2009 at 2:47:06 am

Hello Dave and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.

Unclippable, well, yes, but at some point you won't much like the sound of the unclipped audio.

If you want 4 inputs step up to the Sound Devices 442. It's a few exponents ahead of the ENG-44.

Regards,

Ty Ford


Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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JC Boulay
Re: "unclippable" (Premix) vs "compressor/limiter" ENG-44
on Aug 20, 2009 at 3:11:20 pm

There is no true advantage to "unclippable" technology, as it's barely more than a fancy marketing name for "automatic compressor/limiter". It auto-adjusts itself, which makes me, the guy who'd be receiving and mixing the audio, cringe. I've heard some ridiculously squashed material come out of that process. You'd be better off using a fixed-ceiling limiter and leave plenty of headroom on your input levels, which is really the important part. In fact, if you leave some headroom, it shouldn't really matter what kind of limiter your device uses for the few peaks it'll have to catch. We don't record to tape anymore, so maximizing the input signal to combat hiss should not be a priority. I'd much rather receive lower-level audio than already-limited audio. You can boost level, but you can't un-limit.

As for specific field recording devices, I really can't help there.



JC Boulay
Audio Z
Montreal, Canada
http://www.audioz.com


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Ty Ford
Re: "unclippable" (Premix) vs "compressor/limiter" ENG-44
on Aug 20, 2009 at 3:46:06 pm

JC,

What I meant to say was that the Sound Devices 442 has saved my butt in several situations (train whistles and live ammo fire) by keeping clipping from happening. It is exceptional in that regard, but it is not a "set and forget" mixer.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Dave Messinger
Re: "unclippable" (Premix) vs "compressor/limiter" ENG-44
on Aug 21, 2009 at 7:18:26 pm

"If you want 4 inputs step up to the Sound Devices 442. It's a few exponents ahead of the ENG-44."

Thanks Ty for that advise - and if unlimited funds were no problem - perhaps I would - $2500 vs $650....

However - money is an issue and that's why I was asking about the Premix vs the ENG-44. I was wondering how the "unclippable" feature of the Premix compared to the "compressor/limiter" of the ENG-44.

My guess would be that they are very similar features - but not having either, I was hoping for some comments along those lines - like the Permix blows away the ENG-44, or both work similiarly, etc.




Dave Messinger
http://vfwTech.com


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Ty Ford
Re: "unclippable" (Premix) vs "compressor/limiter" ENG-44
on Aug 21, 2009 at 7:23:52 pm

Dave,

OK. It's the MixPre, BTW and it's circuitry is a lot better than the ENG-44.

I have had a MixPre here and they sent me an ENG-44 which I also reviewed, which is why I made the comments.

If you don't need 4 inputs, the MixPre is a much better piece of gear than the ENG-44.

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Dave Messinger
Re: "unclippable" (Premix) vs "compressor/limiter" ENG-44
on Aug 22, 2009 at 2:55:08 pm

Thanks.

Out of curiosity - IYO, is the 442 worth 4x the price of the Premix ?

Regarding the Premix, - the thing I am really trying to prevent is hot feeds that I seem to get from mixers at various events I shoot at. Not always - but more than once is one time too many for me. I go to an event (usually at a hotel where I don't think their AV guys really know their audio mixers that well), I get a feed and for some reason it is just hot - somewhat fuzzy - just not clean, and turning down my meters still doesn't get rid of that fuzz. And it seems like it is always that situation where I am not at the mixer but half a room away wondering why I am getting this "not as clean as it should be" audio - and the audio guy is no where around or we can't do sound checks cause event is ready to go - and I have to live with it.

I know there is no excuse for up front setup etc. etc. - but I am trying to cover those times when the situation is what it is and to best limit that hot audio feed.







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Ty Ford
Re: "unclippable" (Premix) vs "compressor/limiter" ENG-44
on Aug 22, 2009 at 7:52:45 pm

Dave,

They are probably sending you line level. The 442 has more gozintas and gozoutas that can be very helpful.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Dave Messinger
Re: "unclippable" (Premix) vs "compressor/limiter" ENG-44
on Aug 22, 2009 at 10:02:26 pm

No - I have line level switches on my camera which I always switch to before complaining about the sound. There's a big differeence between line and mic. I think generally they just have the gain turned up to high. I can usually hear it in the house speakers too - just starts to fuzz with the louder tones. But anyway - thanks for help.

Dave Messinger
http://vfwTech.com


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Ty Ford
Re: "unclippable" (Premix) vs "compressor/limiter" ENG-44
on Aug 23, 2009 at 1:07:54 pm

Dave,

We would have saved a lot of words had you mentioned that.

In that situation, the quality of your mixer is irrelevant.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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