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AKG CK93 & CK94 M/S Configuration?

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John Moore
AKG CK93 & CK94 M/S Configuration?
on Jul 31, 2009 at 6:03:21 pm

I hope you don't mind the cross-post (I also asked this on the Yahoo phonography group)- but I've noticed that some of you aren't on that list & I always appreciate the info provided on this site!

I've picked up a couple of AKG SE 300B bodies and a CK93 Hypercardioid capsule (mostly for video sound use)... I was wondering if anyone has used the CK94 Figure Eight capsule in an M/S configuration, either with the CK93 or another microphone?

I have 2 other questions regarding this setup:

1) Will the self noise of the CK93 (17 dBA) & CK94 (22 dBA) be a disqualifying factor for spending the roughly $425? If so- maybe I should just wait until I can afford something like the Sennheiser MKH-60/MKH-30 combo (like THAT'S gonna happen!).

2) If I do go with the more affordable AKG CK93/CK94 combo, am I going to be able to use my Wendt X3 3-channel mixer/preamp to get the correct M/S output (channel 1 = left, 2 = center, 3 = right) or am I going to have to pick up an M/S decoder? If so- can anyone suggest an affordable unit? I've emailed Peter Engh regarding his Sonic Orbit, and I'm hoping it isn't priced out of my reach.

TIA

John Moore
sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com


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Ty Ford
Re: AKG CK93 & CK94 M/S Configuration?
on Aug 1, 2009 at 1:10:55 am

[John Moore] "1) Will the self noise of the CK93 (17 dBA) & CK94 (22 dBA) be a disqualifying factor for spending the roughly $425? If so- maybe I should just wait until I can afford something like the Sennheiser MKH-60/MKH-30 combo (like THAT'S gonna happen!).

2) If I do go with the more affordable AKG CK93/CK94 combo, am I going to be able to use my Wendt X3 3-channel mixer/preamp to get the correct M/S output (channel 1 = left, 2 = center, 3 = right) or am I going to have to pick up an M/S decoder? If so- can anyone suggest an affordable unit? I've emailed Peter Engh regarding his Sonic Orbit, and I'm hoping it isn't priced out of my reach.
"


Hello John and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.

Why do you want to M/S record?

I'd want to try the figure of eight to see how much selfnoise there is. There is the MKH 418S. You need to power both capsules to get one to work. It sounds a lot like a 416, with a slight extension in the top end.

Do you want to monitor in M/S? If so you do need to decode. Call Buzz Turner at Turner Audio in CT. He'll fix you up. Tell him I suggested you call.

Regards,

Ty Ford



Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Greg Curda
Re: AKG CK93 & CK94 M/S Configuration?
on Aug 2, 2009 at 3:15:11 am

Hi John,

To echo Ty, yes, your noise floors will add. Go to an audio shop and listen to the 94 in combo with the 93 and see for yourself.

You will not get 3 channels from M/S. It is a stereo format. The 2 advantages of M/S are being able to vary the width of the stereo image (usually in post), and being able to use the recording as mono (ch1, mid only).

The 418 is a great mic, being able to function as a mono shotgun (like a 416) and an M/S stereo mic. It is expensive, though.

There are other M/S mics available as well. I like the Pearl MS8 (about $800). Or the Shure VP88 (about $700).

If used with the Wendt, you will be able to lay down 2 channels, but they will not be "stereo". They will be mid (mono) and side (mono). The stereo part happens in the matrixing. So, you will need a decoder at least to hear stereo. If you want to record a stereo image, then you will need an encoder, as well.

Most Sound Devices mixers have M/S capability built in.

Either way, I think you will have to spend some $$ aside from the second capsule to make M/S happen.


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John Moore
Re: AKG CK93 & CK94 M/S Configuration?
on Aug 2, 2009 at 9:39:58 pm

Ty & Greg- thanks for filling me in on the details... I've been interested in M/S because of the regular use by field recordists (usually nature recording) for excellent stereo results that can be summed to mono if necessary. I was hoping to either use equipment I already own and supplement with affordable extras- but, it sounds like I should put this off for a while.

Right now I'm thinking I need to concentrate on sound for video projects, so I'm trying to upgrade my mic locker by adding a second CK93 & the Rode NTG-3 shotgun... I'm finding that I don't really care for the sound of the ME66, nor do I really need the stereo Rode NT-4, so I'm going to put those up for sale.

Thanks, again, for the info!

John Moore
sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com


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Ty Ford
Re: AKG CK93 & CK94 M/S Configuration?
on Aug 3, 2009 at 12:49:07 am

Hi John,

The Sure is pretty noisy when you crank the side capsules all the way up.

The NTG-3 is nice. Wider a bit than the Sennheiser 416. Npt quite as much bottom as a 416, but that's no sin. The NTG-3 is very well engineered. That and an AT 4053b for inside work will get you somewhere.

The AT BP4025 is good for recording ambi, but, for some reason, I don't like it up close.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Greg Curda
Re: AKG CK93 & CK94 M/S Configuration?
on Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47:51 am

Yeah, you're right TY, I usually only use the Shure for a crowd mic and sometimes a quick live music recording, but it has gotten me out of a SFX pinch from time to time. I have the AT with both cardioid and hyper capsules...it's very nice too... I will use the AT in higher damage risk situations (its very tough) and on particularly screechy female talent (it's very smooth).

I have an old NT-1 and have used it a lot. The NTG-3 sounds very good. I had forgotten how good the Rodes are. Thanks for the reminder...







I'm generally loathe to sell mics, unless I really need the money. All my Senns, for instance, are selling for almost twice what I paid for them. A good mic arsenal is probably your biggest tool. I have used everything I own at one time or another, even as a prop...clients seem to like a lot of mics, and it gives experience with many mic types. I'd keep the stereo Rode if you can...never know...I haven't heard it but I'm sure it can't be that noisy, eh?

G



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John Moore
Re: AKG CK93 & CK94 M/S Configuration?
on Aug 3, 2009 at 3:01:04 am

Ty- thanks, again, for the feedback...

My location sound system at present:

Fostex FR2
Wendt X3
Sennheiser ME66/K6 - Outdoor booming
AKG SE300B/CK93 (2) - Indoor booming
Audio-Technica AT3031 cardioid (2) - Indoor plant mics
Audio-Technica AT3032 omni (2) Mostly for field recording in stereo
R0de NT4 - Mostly for field recording in stereo

I'd like to replace the ME66 with the Rode NTG-3 & add at least 1 wired lav (Sanken or CountryMan- but no rush on that). I figure I can rent for any project that needs wireless.



John Moore
sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com


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Ty Ford
Re: AKG CK93 & CK94 M/S Configuration?
on Aug 3, 2009 at 9:34:12 am

John,

I like the sound on the sanken COS-11. I like the hideability of the Countyrman B6.
Countryman B3, and EMW are good.

The little paddle mic AT sells, can't remember the number, is a surprisingly good. It the one that came with the AT U 100 kit.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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