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Brian Reynolds
Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Jun 14, 2009 at 1:36:47 am

In the past month I have been asked to make some sets of cables with Mini XLR connectors on them to fit the "RED Camera" Currently being used for HD production.
It may become a standard in Video Production in the future...
The Audio inputs are 3 pin MINI XLR connections (x4 Inputs)
The pin connections are as in a standard XLR
Pin 1. Shield
Pin 2. Hot +
Pin 3. Cold -

I have made Mini XLR3M to (standard)XLR3F about 400mm long so they be strapped to the camera when in production.

http://www.red.com/cameras/


The difference between Knowledge and Wisdom is... Knowledge is the knowing of facts.... Wisdom is the sensible application of good quality knowledge...


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Ty Ford
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Jun 14, 2009 at 2:32:53 pm

Thanks Brian,

Considering how grossly unobservant the people at RED have been about ANY audio issues, this would be a help. Before you nail down YOUR standard, however, it would be nice to know what their pinouts are at the moment.

Regards,

Ty

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Jordan Wolf
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Jun 15, 2009 at 5:57:47 am

I should hope that such a professional device would be "Pin 2 Hot", but as we know the "standards" are always set in stone. I wouldn't mind if it were switchable - my Klark Teknik parametric EQ is...and that's quite handy sometimes.

I'm glad the pinout is the same as many (most?) XLR-type connections...at least in the United States. TAF connectors seem like a pain to me, but I guess if you can squeeze more into the same space, why not.

Anyways...thanks for the info Brian - I'm sure it will come in handy to people as the mini-connectors become more widespread in their usage.

Wolf
<><


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Ty Ford
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Jun 15, 2009 at 11:17:41 am

Jordan,

As I was saying, the RED people have shown themselves to be relatively clueless and unconcerned about audio. Before you work with a red camera, please do yourself a favor and check this link out.

If Sony, Panasonic, Ikegami or JVC came out with a camera with this many problems, they'd be the laughing stock of the industry.

http://www.trewaudio.com/audioflow/2008/03/12/are-you-redy/

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Jordan Wolf
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Jun 16, 2009 at 5:35:35 am

Interesting read, Ty. I'm glad that SOMEONE is investigating the correct pinouts - that will definitely come in handy if I ever encounter one of these cameras.

I don't think a video camera that skimps on video quality for the sake of audio quality would do well at all, after all, that's not the point of a VIDEO camera. That's how people like us get jobs - our expertise is in capturing the desired audio using the correct equipment so that when the excellent video from the nice camera and the excellent audio from the recording(s) are combined, they create a stunning sensory experience.

Wolf
<><


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Ty Ford
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Jun 16, 2009 at 10:19:57 am

Wolf,

I emailed the author about it yesterday, given it's age. He said there had been some changes and that he might revisit the issue.

About the audio video thing. RED was so far off base it was silly.
Getting audio right isn't that hard, but the big guys managed to screw up HDV by making the audio mpeg. Go figure.

REgards,

Ty

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Greg Curda
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Jun 24, 2009 at 2:03:27 pm

Hi guys,

Having worked with the RED for a while, I would never consider recording only single system to the camera. It's a camera, not an audio recorder.

The line inputs are non adjustable and nominally -10, so get your pads ready. The pin-outs are correct on the website, and wrong in the manual, or is it the other way around? Also the cables from RED are padded, so check that out.

There was a new sound card build, but they are replacing it by serial number, so it will be another 6 mos before any of my cams get upgraded. This supposedly fixes the level problem... I haven't investigated yet...

Check for more issues at:

http://reduser.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=a9513b6ce589815cdd787b3114c59c1...

I record guide track (mix) to CH1 for the editor to cut with, and then have a sound editor following the cut and laying in the multi-track
...pain in the ass... but that's also because FCP will not carry source TC in an OMF export, so it's manual syncing... What fun...

Great for picture, bad for sound...

G


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Ty Ford
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Jun 24, 2009 at 9:20:53 pm

Hello Greg,

The Sound Devices 442 mixer outputs can be adjusted to 0 VU, -10 or mic level.

I wasn't sure why I'd need -10 several years ago when I bought the 442, but I has served me VERY well on half a dozen occasions. This is one of MANY features the 442 has. Too many to mention here.

Thank you for your thoroughness, Sound Devices.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Greg Curda
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Jun 25, 2009 at 12:45:39 pm

Hi Ty,

A little off the topic, but...

There aren't enough good things to say about that mixer. I have always been so into my CS104, but almost traded for a 442, after using the latter a few times. Now the CS104 is a collector's item, so I'll never sell it. The 442, however, has complete flexibility, if you know how to apply the features. I thought nobody could ever beat Andy's limiters, but SD's dual limiter system makes it almost too easy!! I have the MixPre and MP1 and love those for almost no weight run and gun EFP, or MS SFX recording. If they ever come out with a panel mixer, they will rule!

If anyone were to buy a new mixer now, I can't imagine buying anything other than a Sound Devices. I'm told that the SD team is comprised of a bunch of engineers from Shure. Rock on, guys...


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Bill Kaplan
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Nov 8, 2010 at 12:51:40 am

Hi Ty. Do you know the pinouts for the 5 pin line level out. May need to make one. I would guess that it would be 1 shield, 2 and 4 hot and 3 and 5 neutral? Did a web search but did not find it. Hope all is well. Cheers BK


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Ty Ford
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Nov 8, 2010 at 4:49:38 am

Hey Neighbor,

For what device?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Brian Reynolds
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Nov 8, 2010 at 6:30:44 am

If you do a google search on... [ red_build_14_ops_guide_v2.0.3 ] this is the operator handbook for the RED camera the pin connections for audio is on page 63.

the 5 pin mini xlr is wired [according to the manual as]
O/P is line level out....

1. Left +
2. Not connected
3. Left -
4. Right +
5. Right -

Mind you it seems strange but thats what the book says....

The difference between Knowledge and Wisdom is... Knowledge is the knowing of facts.... Wisdom is the sensible application of good quality knowledge...


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Ty Ford
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Nov 8, 2010 at 1:02:31 pm

Brian, Bill,

That may be OK for build 14, but check the build of the RED camera you'll be trying to use your cable with.

Early on, there were some pin out changes. I don't remember what build or what they went to. I just remember hearing about it.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Greg Curda
Re: Mini XLR Connectors / RED Camera
on Nov 8, 2010 at 6:32:45 pm

Hi Ty and all,

I failed to post that we got all our REDs back from upgrade (I'll have to check on the build) and the cable boys made some straight XLR to TA cables (no pad). We fed line level (+4) from a SD442 and the cam lined up fine, and program audio was acceptable on all 4 channels. Good enough for typical in-cam AVPs and the like. Sometimes, finishing a piece in FCP is unavoidable, but at least I have more confidence that the tracks will be acceptable without tons of guess work. This does not eliminate the need for a skilled production sound crew, but I feel a little better about the RED's recording capability.

Naturally for any feature or TV work we still use double system, and run through Sound Post after picture lock.


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