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mic level into camera

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Robin Probyn
mic level into camera
on Nov 30, 2008 at 1:45:17 am

hi there

went direct into camera HDX900 with mic level... changed the rear XLR to mic level.... but it was still a really high signal... had to turn the volume way down... worked ok .. but I wonder about having to put the volume so low..

From the mixer.. line level ... volume control is in the right place..

Was told by a soundguy that the Panasonic camera,s are like this..... ???

Thanks





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Jordan Wolf
Re: mic level into camera
on Nov 30, 2008 at 5:39:52 am

Could you clarify your signal chain more?

This is what I gather from your description:

EITHER Microphone-->Camera Input (XLR) @ Mic Level

OR Microphone-->Mixer-->Camera Input (XLR) @ Line Level

Which, if either, is correct?



Wolf
<><


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Robin Probyn
Re: mic level into camera
on Nov 30, 2008 at 6:25:03 am

Sorry not to be clear..

I first tried 416 straight into rear XLR of camera HDX900... with rear input switch set to +48 mic .. but was a very hot signal... had done this on my Sony Digibeta with no problem.. So I put that through the mixer which is line level out... set rear XLR to line.. and no problem.. the usual set up..

Then tried radio mic,direct to camera.. set rear XLR to mic level.. plugged in receiver direct to camera.. again very hot signal.... was ok as a back up track(interview shoot) with the camera volume switch set very low... almost nothing.. but sounded ok.. just wonder why the panasonic camera doesnt seem to like mic level direct.. where as the Sony is ok.

The radio mic receiver has an attenuator in 3db segments.. maybe I could put in 6 db attenuation next time if this happens... and put in an XLR pad in the cable if I want to use the 416.

99% of the time Iam with a sound recordist with line level coming in from the mixer and there are no problems.. but was surprised the HDX900 had to be turned down so low to make mic level direct ok.



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Jordan Wolf
Re: mic level into camera
on Nov 30, 2008 at 7:16:56 am

Aha...there's a problem I'm familiar with.

You need to set the camera's input to LINE when using the wireless microphone. If you don't, you'll overload the input with too strong of a signal. We have the Sennheiser ENG wireless kit and I noticed this exact problem.

The Sennheiser 416 shouldn't be too hot since it's going direct, but if that's what you experienced, I guess that's how it is.

Here is what I usually do: Shotgun Mic-->Shure FP24-->Camera Inputs (LINE LEVEL). If we need a wireless, I'll go directly to the camera since the receiver's output is too hot for the camera's inputs to handle even at LINE level. I guess I could pad it down/reduce the AF OUT, but this keeps it easier for those times when I'm not on the set.

Best of luck!



Wolf
<><


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Robin Probyn
Re: mic level into camera
on Nov 30, 2008 at 7:36:00 am

Unfortunately the line level was too low... looked like nothing coming through.. think if i do it again will but in attenuation from the transmitter???

Not sure why the 416 was high either... are the sound circuits so different between Sony and Pana camera,s so different..??



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Matte Blume
Re: mic level into camera
on Nov 30, 2008 at 9:47:32 pm

It is possible to PAD a higher-output mic (like your new one) so that it does not "over-drive" the pre-amp on a more sensitive camcorder.
A pad with a selectable attenuation is like this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&...

These pads fit between the mic output and the input of the camcorder.

The main draw-back is they add about 3 to 4 inches to the total mic length when connected directly to the mic, or stick out by that much if connected directly to the camcorder, or "dangle" if you use a short XLR cord to attach it.

According to the Shure specs, you can use this pad and still use Phantom Power for your mic.





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Robin Probyn
Re: mic level into camera
on Dec 1, 2008 at 12:26:28 am

Hi Matt

Thanks.. yes I have one of these.. but have never used it!!! if I have to do an interview without sound person will go that route ... My sony camera DVW790 is fine mic level in for both 416 and radio mic.. but new camera HDX900 doesnt seem to like it.. although it has a rear XLR setting for mic level and mic +48.

Strange?



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Ty Ford
Re: mic level into camera
on Nov 30, 2008 at 10:35:22 pm

"You need to set the camera's input to LINE when using the wireless microphone. If you don't, you'll overload the input with too strong of a signal. We have the Sennheiser ENG wireless kit and I noticed this exact problem."

Careful Jordan. There are wireless mic receivers that are adjustable to mic level.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Robin Probyn
Re: mic level into camera
on Dec 1, 2008 at 12:22:05 am

I always presumed radio mic,s were always mic level inputs? is that not the case?

So the Panasonic camera,s are more (sensitive) for sound input levels..???

Line level was nothing.but mic was way over???

Thanks



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Ty Ford
Re: mic level into camera
on Dec 1, 2008 at 1:29:05 am

You mean mic level outputs, right?

There are some wireless receivers that have line level outputs.

As to the specific problem here, I don't know for sure. I have seen audio inputs with on-camera mics get over loaded in a noisy environment.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Robin Probyn
Re: mic level into camera
on Dec 1, 2008 at 1:37:56 am

Yes my radio mic is definitely mic level... just tried on my digibeta and line level is no signal at all,on the meter anyway... but mic level is totally fine.. going direct into camera this is..

For some reason the HDX900 seems to be at some different mic level.... or is super sensitive ? with same radio mic ,camera set to mic at the rear XLR.. signal is really high.. have to turn the camera volume/input control way down.... same for the 416 direct to camera rear XLR set to Mic +48...

Just wonder why the HDX900 would be set like this.. maybe audio is not the best forum to ask the question as when there is a sound person you wouldnt be plugging in direct? From the mixer at line level the HDX900 levels are also normal..

Thanks again



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Jordan Wolf
Re: mic level into camera
on Dec 1, 2008 at 3:08:16 am

Could you give us the brand, model, etc. of your radio mic? A link to the product's webpage would be helpful.

They would let us see what settings you have at your disposal and if/how they could be used in your situation.

Wolf
<><


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Robin Probyn
Re: mic level into camera
on Dec 1, 2008 at 3:29:55 am

Hi there

Its a bit of a cheap one... but I use it with a Sanken Cos 11.. and it works well enough..

Sony UTX-B1 trans/UTX-P1 receiver ...

Also used the schenhiesr (never could spell that) evolution one .. that also was very high,like the Sony.

There is attenuator function on the transmitter... would that be ok quality wise.. 6 db or 3bd?

I have a more expensive radio mic.. but dont use that direct into camera,as the receiver is much heavier..
The Sony is good as I can just clip it onto the camera cover..

Thanks



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Jordan Wolf
Re: mic level into camera
on Dec 1, 2008 at 5:11:27 am

On page 18 of the manual (click here to download it), it mentions in step 10 that you can set the audio output of the transmitter to either -28dBm or -58dBm. You should set your gear to -28dBm for Line Level inputs and to -58dBm for Mic Level inputs.

Wolf
<><


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Robin Probyn
Re: mic level into camera
on Dec 1, 2008 at 5:19:18 am

Thanks but that is for the URX-R1 rack tuner... I have the portable diversity tuner URX-P1






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Jordan Wolf
Re: mic level into camera
on Dec 1, 2008 at 3:05:20 am

You are correct, sir. :-)

I thought I added it in, but I guess I forgot. I was going to put in how you could adjust the AF OUT on the receivers to compensate.

Wolf
<><


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