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Countryman B6 vs TRAM TR50 vs Sanken COS-11X

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steven broido
Countryman B6 vs TRAM TR50 vs Sanken COS-11X
on Oct 9, 2008 at 3:41:29 pm

Heya Creative Cow Folks,

Am looking at the following lavalier microphones and looking for some opionions. The Mics are:
= = = = = = = = = =
Countryman B6
http://www.countryman.com/store/product.asp?id=5&catid=10
= = = = = = = = = =
TRAM TR50
http://www.trammicrophones.com/
= = = = = = = = = =
Sanken COS-11X
http://www.sanken-mic.com/en/product/product.cfm/5.1005900
= = = = = = = = = =
These mics will all be used:

-- In sound treated studio mostly.
-- Phantom power available through camera or mixing board.
-- Size doesn't matter much as these mics can be visible.
-- Used in insert studio for appearances on broadcast television and for video ending up on the web.
-- Budget isn't a dealbreaker. I'd like to keep this mic purchase under 400 per mic but if there are mics out there that are vastly superior for 500 or 600, I can certainly consider them.

We're currently using Audio Technica's AT831b and I'm finding the output of these mics fairly low and I'm cranking the gain up higher than I'd like (I'm guessing due to cardiod pattern and placement issues - people turning their heads when speaking and such)

Anyhow, I believe the above three mics mentioned are highly regarded and used by lots of folks out there.

Any recommendations? I've listened to the samples on Ken Stone's Final Cut Pro site (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/lavs_brockett.html) and liked the Sanken the best but they all sounded quite good to me.

I often record panel discussions and find comb filtering (people being picked up on other people's mics leading to hallow funky sounds )to be an issue. I realize that Omni Mics won't help this much but perhaps one mic does better than others in this regard.

I record everybody on their own channel anyway and can duck people in and out as needed but the less of this I have to do, the better.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! And if one of these mics is more of an industry standard than the others, that would also be good to know. My main concern for our televsion appearances is that we are sending clean audio that sounds like what everybody else is using. Also, if there are other mic's that you believe are much much better (Sennheiser MKE-2 or the Sony ECM-88?) I can consider those as well.

Thanks again,

Steve


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Ty Ford
Re: Countryman B6 vs TRAM TR50 vs Sanken COS-11X
on Oct 9, 2008 at 11:29:03 pm

[steven broido] "I often record panel discussions and find comb filtering (people being picked up on other people's mics leading to hallow funky sounds )to be an issue. I realize that Omni Mics won't help this much but perhaps one mic does better than others in this regard.

I record everybody on their own channel anyway and can duck people in and out as needed but the less of this I have to do, the better.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! And if one of these mics is more of an industry standard than the others, that would also be good to know. My main concern for our televsion appearances is that we are sending clean audio that sounds like what everybody else is using. Also, if there are other mic's that you believe are much much better (Sennheiser MKE-2 or the Sony ECM-88?) I can consider those as well. "


The AT mic you chose, being cardioid, will present positioning problems and be more sensitive to wind and popping.

The ones you mention are industry standard. Also include Countryman EMW and the Sony 77B omnis. mics. MKE2 are good and the ECM 88 is as well.

Yes, you may have phasing problems if mics are too close together; more so in a reflective environment. Mixing the way you explain is one way. Using an automixer like the Shure FP410 also works.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Rodney Morris
Re: Countryman B6 vs TRAM TR50 vs Sanken COS-11X
on Oct 10, 2008 at 1:55:44 am

Out of your 3 choices, I would pick the Sanken (I own 3) just because of it's sound. The Tram is a good mic (I own 2), but tends to sound a little trashy at times, especially on the wrong voice. The Countryman B6 is a good mic as well, but you'll probably be worried about it getting damaged by your guests. The cable feels very frail.

The Countryman EMW (I own 2 or 3) is a nice sounding mic, but the mounting hardware leaves alot to be desired. The tie clip is more or less useless.

The Sennheiser MKE 2 sounds very nice but tends to be a little more prone to breath pops. This is why you frequently see them mounted "upside down" (remember, with omni mics it doesn't matter where they are pointed).

I was never a big fan of the Sony 77B due to mid-range harshness, though I know others who really liked them. I've not used the 88 so I can't comment on it.

I use my Sankens when it really matters. I'll use the Trams for convenience or when I'm worried about the mics getting damaged. I never use my EMWs these days (I should probably sell them).

I hope this helps you with your decision.

Rodney

Freelance Sound Technician/Mixer


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Steven Broido
Re: Countryman B6 vs TRAM TR50 vs Sanken COS-11X
on Oct 10, 2008 at 2:37:32 am

Thanks so much! Very helpful indeed.

I was kind of leaning towards the Sanken as I thought it sounded the best. On Ken Stone's audio review, I did actually notice a few P pops on the Sennheiser mic.

Thanks again!

S





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Hannah Jacobs
Does Sanken Cos-11 w/phantom power need a pre-amp?
on Jun 8, 2009 at 6:48:48 am

I'm confused, does the Sanken Cos-11 (w/XLR & phantom power) need a preamp to supply phantom power before being run to the video camera? (I'm using a Canon HV20)

-Or can I run an adapter from the XLR straight to the Video Camera? Right now the inexpensive lavalier I'm using has its own battery. Can you please clarify? -Thanks very much.


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Ty Ford
Re: Does Sanken Cos-11 w/phantom power need a pre-amp?
on Jun 8, 2009 at 10:21:39 am

Hello Hannah,

Yes, if the COS 11 you have has an XLR connector, the mic requires 48v phantom power.

Battery powered phantom power supplies can be used if your camera does not provide phantom power. A good mixer which provides that and more is an even better idea.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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John Fishback
Re: Countryman B6 vs TRAM TR50 vs Sanken COS-11X
on Oct 10, 2008 at 9:44:35 pm

Check out the lavs from Voice Technologies. http://www.voicetechnologies.net/ Our soundman on a recent shoot used them and they sounded great - even when hidden.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.4 QT7.5 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870
ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE Enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID
24" TV-Logic Monitor
Final Cut Studio 2 (up to date)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN


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