FORUMS: list search recent posts

4-channel post-fade out field mixer?

COW Forums : Audio Professionals

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Bob Woodhead
4-channel post-fade out field mixer?
on Sep 30, 2008 at 1:27:03 pm

Anyone know of a 4-channel post-fade out field mixer? I shoot on a HPX500, which has 4 channels. We often go to 3 or 4 mics, and would really prefer to record them discreetly. But I'm having no luck finding a field mixer that can handle this. Closest thing was the PSC AlphaMix, but that has pre-fade out. Ideas?

"Constituo, ergo sum"

Bob Woodhead / Atlanta
http://www.CoolNewMedia.net
Quantel-Avid-FCP-3D-Crayola
Panasonic HPX500


Return to posts index

Jeff Mack
Re: 4-channel post-fade out field mixer?
on Oct 1, 2008 at 2:16:47 am

Hello, Jeff here,

I don't know what you think of this setup but I use these all the time. I bout this from Shure.

http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/PersonalMonitorSystems/us_pro_P4MTRE...

It's made as a personal monitor mixer for bands that don't use floor monitors. It has a wireless transmitter as well. You have 4 neutrik inputs and then you can send a mix to thetransmitter and send a reference stereo trak to your camera. The mixer also has 4 pre fade direct outs (XLR)

Might not work for you though. Sorry if it doesnet.

Jeff



Return to posts index

Bob Woodhead
Re: 4-channel post-fade out field mixer?
on Oct 1, 2008 at 11:25:00 am

Yeah, looking specifically for post-fade outputs so audio guy can ride gains & monitor 4 mics prior to hitting camera. But still something in a field usage configuration.


Return to posts index


Ty Ford
Re: 4-channel post-fade out field mixer?
on Oct 1, 2008 at 12:10:37 pm

HEllo Bob,

The Sound Devices 442 mixer has pre-fader outs for each of its four inputs.

It's a my main mixer.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






Return to posts index

Bob Woodhead
Re: 4-channel post-fade out field mixer?
on Oct 1, 2008 at 9:44:10 pm

Yeah, **pre** fade out. But wouldn't it be better to be post-fade, so your audio guy rides gain on the inputs before it hits the 4 channels of the camera? Otherwise, why even bother with the mixer? (Which is what we're doing mostly now.)


Return to posts index

Ty Ford
Re: 4-channel post-fade out field mixer?
on Oct 1, 2008 at 10:04:54 pm

No. The Sound Devices 442 direct outs are prefader, BUT post trim, post imput limiter, post high pass filter.

All of which can be very handy.

Regards,

Ty Ford



Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






Return to posts index


Bob Woodhead
Re: 4-channel post-fade out field mixer?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 12:33:55 pm

Not trying to be difficult (really!), but my mics mostly have rolloffs and the camera has assignable limiters on each channel.

What I'm trying to find is a field mixer that can be used simply to ride the gains for each of 4 channels going into the camera. I've searched through the regular players, and haven't found this ability.

Is this an oddball request? I'm certainly not an "audio person", so perhaps I'm missing something?


Return to posts index

Ty Ford
Re: 4-channel post-fade out field mixer?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 1:33:25 pm

Not trying to be difficult (really!), but my mics mostly have rolloffs and the camera has assignable limiters on each channel.

>> What camera? Pretty much all AGC circuits on any camera I've seen are pretty brutal.

What I'm trying to find is a field mixer that can be used simply to ride the gains for each of 4 channels going into the camera. I've searched through the regular players, and haven't found this ability.

Is this an oddball request? I'm certainly not an "audio person", so perhaps I'm missing something?

>> Yes it is an oddball request. Typically you go with the mono, stereo or split track mix from the mixer and use the direct outs as backup, porting direct outputs to a stand alone recorder for possible use later. You don't need to do a lot of level changing with the coarse adjustments unless they go from very quiet to WAY OVER THE TOP. You're paying attention to the mono, stereo or split track mix. It is very difficult to do a good stereo mix AND adjust levels to direct outs.

With your standalone recorder and direct outs, If talent three screws up a line (and you're lucky enough not to have it bleed into the other three mics) you can replace it during an ADR session. That's the benefit.

Otherwise you mix the four tracks to mono, stereo or split track as the action is taking place. . and do a stereo mix, hoping you'll get it all done there.

Since the 442 (and other mixers) have coarse input adjustments, you could use them to mix to the direct outs, but that's not a typical workflow and the coarse controls are not as easy to tweek as the fader knobs.

I'm sure there are mixers that offer four discreet outputs and faders, but I don't know of any high grade portable ones. You're not really mixing then. Your chasing levels to four discreet tracks. How do you monitor those four tracks to get any semblance of a stereo, mono or split track mix?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






Return to posts index

Bob Woodhead
Re: 4-channel post-fade out field mixer?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 3:15:36 pm

First off, let me say thank you for your input on the question, I really appreciate your time!

Pana HPX500, btw, and I try not to use AGC, but sometimes the limiters.

>>I'm sure there are mixers that offer four discreet outputs and faders, but I don't know of any high grade portable ones. You're not really mixing then. Your chasing levels to four discreet tracks. How do you monitor those four tracks to get any semblance of a stereo, mono or split track mix?>>

Exactly - I like the ability to NOT mix them, if I have 4 sources or less. Gives me more freedom in post. For example, I'll use FinalPlug on those people that have too wide a range of levels, and it's much easier when the tracks are fully split. I suppose it would help the conversation to state that almost 100% of my work goes through post, so unlike news, I've time to tweak it later.

Monitoring - now that's a fair question... I'd hope for solo channel monitoring and mix out.

**OR**, am I approaching this wrong, simply because I want to use all 4 channels of my camera?



Return to posts index


Rodney Morris
Re: 4-channel post-fade out field mixer?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 3:20:03 pm

Don't know of any portable field mixers that are post fade direct out. If my memory serves me correctly, some of the Allen & Heath consoles can be modified to change the DO to post by the use of some internal jumpers. I suppose any mixer could be modified to accomplish this.

Maybe you should just buy 2 MixPre's and run both of them stereo. L/R from 2 mixers equals 4 discreet channels with trim adjustment.

Rodney

Freelance Sound Technician/Mixer


Return to posts index

Bob Woodhead
Re: 4-channel post-fade out field mixer?
on Oct 2, 2008 at 4:41:27 pm

Ah.. there's the easy answer!


Return to posts index

Greg Curda
Re: 4-channel post-fade out field mixer?
on Oct 3, 2008 at 11:51:51 am

Hi Bob,

I'm going to echo the sentiments of the guys. Twin MixPres would work well, and you would have the advantage of high quality mic pres and both limiters in the mixer (much better than the camera's). The 442 option allows you to monitor all channels (via PFL) and send 4 discreet (direct out) to the cam. I have to say that I'm not a huge fan of riding gain too much, because as you do that, your background changes and it makes it more difficult for your dialogue edits to go across smoothly. I generally set the gain (trying to match background), let the dialogue rise and fall naturally, and let the limiters take care of huge, unforseen peaks. Then you know your edits will be smooth (that's the point of tracking, yeah?) The quality of the limiter is very important. Sound Devices has some of the most natural and effective limiters I have heard. They have never let me down. Just my two cents...

G



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]