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OMF and timecode

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Greg Curda
OMF and timecode
on Sep 30, 2008 at 2:55:23 am

Hi all,

I'm an analog audio guy who's trying to catch up (good luck, right!!!). I have noticed that audio clips carry source timecode on an FCP timeline, but do not retain source timecode when exported as an OMF and imported to ProTools. Is this normal, or do I have something messed up? Is there a better way to transfer a sound edit into ProTools, and still be able to replace or add to TC embedded dialogue?

Running FCP 6.03 and PT 7.3.

I'm trying to find out what will work natively, or does each solution require a helper app? Looked at Automatic Duck, and will investigate further. EDL is also a known option, but I don't think ProTools can do anything with that, natively. Need PostConform, or some other such helper. True? A native solution would be best.

T've got 8 channels of audio coming in from production and trying to keep the picture editor's track count down to 1 mix track, but not make a ton of work for the dialogue guys reconnecting the other 7 tracks. So you can see that source TC in the OMF would be helpful. Or just ask the editor to bite the bullet and cut with 8 channels, then produce an OMF for ProTools (don't need source TC anymore)??

Any ideas or enlightenment is appreciated...Greg



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Peter Groom
Re: OMF and timecode
on Sep 30, 2008 at 1:46:34 pm

I transfer audio from FCP (and avid) all the time to Pro tools 7.3. Ive never been bothered by the fact that tc doesnt port, but think that this it "might" be one of the main attractions to the new aaf mooted replacement for omf. BUT no one seems to have got aff to work yet so its not really a go yet. Indeed the programmer from Virtal katy told me himself that aaf isnt sorted yet

I think avid may have the option to choose b wav as the embedded material in an omf which may then port the tc, but aaf was def the way to go for usig metadata detail like tc, just not yet.

Peter

Peter


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Greg Curda
Re: OMF and timecode
on Oct 2, 2008 at 8:36:15 am

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the update. I am stuck with FCP as a picture solution for now. I think we're gonna try to embed the audio into a ProRes QT and see if that carries the TC across. It's not like we can't sync the rest of the tracks manually...that always works. We're working with RED picture and I'm just trying to find some niftier solution, with minimal plugins, or 3rd party apps. As you might know RED audio doesnt carry TC either, at least that's what I've found. It would be a lot better if I were a little more grounded in modern tech, but I'm certainly trying to catch up as fast as possible!!!

Greg



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Ty Ford
Re: OMF and timecode
on Oct 1, 2008 at 8:52:57 pm

Hello Greg and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.

Have you any experience with Digitranslator?

http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?langid=100&navid=115&itemid=4873

Regards,

Ty Ford



Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Greg Curda
Re: OMF and timecode
on Oct 2, 2008 at 8:43:06 am

Hi Ty,

Thanks for the welcome. One can never have too many brains working on a problem, especially in our modern, and complicated world. I am impressed with the pro-activeness (is that a word?) of you all, and will do my best to share any knowledge.

We use Digitranslator to import OMFs into ProTools and perform some conversions. I am by no means versed in this, but my staff has been using it for some time. I will research it some more...Do you think I am missing something with the capabilities of Digitranslator?? Any specific pointers to narrow my immediate research?

Thanks, and glad to be aboard,

G



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Peter Groom
Re: OMF and timecode
on Oct 2, 2008 at 10:52:48 am

Hi
Digitranslator is an app within Pt that opens up timecode functionality and allows OMF use. But what were talking about here is the fact that OMF doesnt recieve timecodes from the source footage at the Video NLe end, so it wont be present.

peter

Peter


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Ty Ford
Re: OMF and timecode
on Oct 2, 2008 at 12:22:34 pm

Greg,

You may be missing something with Digitranslator. I don't use it, but have read about it. There may also be something in the import process into PT that you can do. Unfortunately, I'm not experienced enough with that workflow to know. If you don't find an answer here, take a trip over tot he digidesign users conference and ask the question in one of their forums.
http://duc.digidesign.com/

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Greg Curda
Re: OMF and timecode
on Oct 3, 2008 at 10:31:46 am

Thanks for the support guys. This is my first time overseeing this workflow, including the picture side.

Peter, are you saying that OMF by nature will not pass source code? Or is it just a quirk of FCP? Or import quirk of PT?

Ty, I will continue research. My guys are still unable to come up with anything surprising.

If I don't have a breakthrough next week, I will just go to a workflow that we all know works...sync manually...haha. Discovery always comes when you least expect it...

G



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Roland Heap
Re: OMF and timecode
on Oct 3, 2008 at 4:45:07 pm

Have you tried gallery's XML-Pro? Check it out at http://www.gallery.co.uk/XMLPro/xmlpro.html.

Because of the way embedded OMFs work (at least in FCP, as far as i am aware) no timecode information is translated into the rendered files contained within the OMF. The only timecode information relates to the overall timeline.

However - XML-pro works differently - it directly converts an FCP XML file into a protools project, keeping the file references the same. Thus, provided you are editing with audio which is directly accessible by protools (not embedded in a quicktime or what have you) then you can force protools to relink back to your same source audio, maintaining all your timecode information.

Best,

Ro







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Greg Curda
Re: OMF and timecode
on Oct 4, 2008 at 5:56:21 am

Thanks, Roland...

That looks like a good option...Does this represent a current standard workflow from FCP to PT? Is EDL an option, and if so what is the app of choice? OMF still has some benefits for small projects (TVC, AVP, etc.) where everything is self contained, but ultimately will not work for features, at least not for ours.

I need to build a case for software, and would like to cover the field of options, OMF, XML. EDL, and AAF, although I don't think AAF is viable yet. Any additional help you guys can give me is greatly appreciated.

G



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Roland Heap
Re: OMF and timecode
on Oct 4, 2008 at 5:09:27 pm

I tend to do a 50/50 split between OMF and XML-pro. OMF has gotten better in FCP 6, the levels seem to translate better. It's just a bugger that it re-renders all the files so you lose your file names. All my films work in reels, so the file size limit is never an issue. And when it is, I simply export the OMF track by track. It's not as pretty as I'd like, but it seems to work... EDLs are history as far as I'm concerned, hope I never have to do an auto-conform again - I'm sure I will though ;)



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Greg Curda
Re: OMF and timecode
on Oct 6, 2008 at 6:37:28 am

Thanks, Roland.

Now I've just learned that there are 2 different OMFs available, embedded and linked. Could you explain this briefly? Would the difference have any bearing on this discussion?

Also, we are using RED cam. We thought of trying to embed the audio tracks in the ProRes QT that goes to Picture Editorial, letting the editor delete the tracks he doesn't want, copying the FCP sequences as they are cut, having a sound asst. reconnect the remaining tracks in FCP according to Source TC, then exporting an OMF with everything (no need source TC anymore). Talk about a long run for a short slide!!

Maybe we're just way over-thinking this, but additional software seems to be a tough sale to upper mgmt. Thoughts?

G



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