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Shotgun or hypercardioid for Canon HV20 videocam?

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Ole Åsheim
Shotgun or hypercardioid for Canon HV20 videocam?
on Feb 5, 2008 at 10:36:13 pm

I just bought a Canon HV20 and wonder what kind of directional microphones you people recommend for this camera?

I have a Sennheiser MKE300 which pick up speech very good. What's also nice is that it's less prone to wind noise compared with Røde Videomic. But bass is more or less eliminated in my Sennheiser.

Røde Videomic has more bass, but (without doing any scientific research) I have an impression that the Røde Videomic is not very useful indoors. When I tried it I got a very hollow sound, especially in small rooms.

I would like to buy a better directional microphone, that can be camera mounted (maybe with the Røde SM3 hotshoe mount) and used handheld. Because HV20 is such a small camera the microphone can't be to long, and of course it must be battery powered and have a minijack connector.

What should I buy? Can you give me suggestions?





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Ken Zukin
Re: Shotgun or hypercardioid for Canon HV20 videocam?
on Feb 6, 2008 at 2:56:01 pm

I'll give you an answer from a camera operator's perspective: it doesn't matter. If you are planning to do any critical audio work (interviews, recording of events) with a camera-mounted microphone, you are going to be very disappointed with the results.

What you will end up with is poor quality audio -- complete with a lot of "handling noise," -- that is, the sound of the zoom control on the camera being activated, etc. etc.

What you need to buy is a wireless lavaliere system. Sennheiser makes a nice one for about $500 that will allow you to record clean audio. Mounting the wireless receiver to your small camera is a little challenging, but it can be done. This type of system can also be rigged with your Hypercardioid or Shotgun mic (off camera & closer to your talent -- on a boom).

Don't get me wrong -- having a microphone on top of your camera is a great thing. It's good "back up" audio, and can be a real life-saver.

Hope I'm being clear enough here about what I'm saying. If you have questions, please post.

Ken


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Ole Åsheim
Re: Shotgun or hypercardioid for Canon HV20 videocam?
on Feb 6, 2008 at 4:21:42 pm

No doubt, a wireless lavaliere system is nice where you can use it. But when shooting a dog sled race for example it will be impossible. There's a lot of movement, and it would be a lot of noice from clothes. What I need is a microphone that can be used both on camera and off for the situations where you can use a cable. How long can a non XLR cable be before it starts to pick up noice?



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Ken Zukin
Re: Shotgun or hypercardioid for Canon HV20 videocam?
on Feb 6, 2008 at 5:27:44 pm

Ole,

A modern wireless system can easily incorporate any microphone you plug into it (as long as the microphone doesn't require "phantom power.") So, should you need to videotape a dog-sled race, you simply have a spectator/your producer/your audio-tech point the shotgun mic, which is connected to the wireless transmitter, in the direction of the race participants.

A wireless system, any way you slice it, a god-send, and has completely changed news-gathering type applications.

I suggest you hang out with some people who do this for a living in your area.

Best,

Ken


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Ole Åsheim
Re: Shotgun or hypercardioid for Canon HV20 videocam?
on Feb 6, 2008 at 7:48:20 pm

Sennheiser has both modular microphones and wireless kits. If you should pick a "beginners kit", what would it consist of?

I listened to a test comparing a lot of different microphones. On the cheap side it was Røde NTG-2. It sounded a bit dull compared to Sennheiser MKE-66. Maybe it was more bass and not dull, but voice sounded more crispy in the Sennheiser. Do you think Røde is good value for money, or a bit too "cheap" sound quality?

What's nice with Sennheiser is that you can buy different capsules for various use. You even get a wireless transmitter that can be connected directly to the end of the microphone.



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Ty Ford
Re: Shotgun or hypercardioid for Canon HV20 videocam?
on Feb 7, 2008 at 12:58:08 am

Hello Ole and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.

Most folks I know who make the comparisons you did don't take into consideration that the Rode Video Mic is a lot more sensitive. Because it sounds louder to them, and they hear more everything, including the room, they sometimes think the mic is less directional. It isn't, in fact the video mic is a better mic.

Granted, neither is world class.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Ken Zukin
I pass the baton to Ty
on Feb 7, 2008 at 2:30:18 am

I'm a camera guy -- there are others on this forum who are much more knowledgeable about audio manufacturers/gear than I am -- like Ty for instance. He's really more qualified to make recommendations.


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Ty Ford
Re: I pass the baton to Ty
on Feb 9, 2008 at 12:27:50 pm

Actually, what impresses me most is that Ole knows what keystroke to use to put the slash through the "O" in Rode.

Pretty much any mic you mount on a camera isn't really close enough to get excellent audio.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Ole Åsheim
Re: I pass the baton to Ty
on Feb 10, 2008 at 5:46:39 pm

He, he! Getting Røde right is a matter of pushing a button. The letter Ø is common in Norwegian language, so it's on every keyboard. But how that letter made it to Australia where Røde is made, I don't know. Guess they can't even make the Ø-sound, which is quite different from O.

Anyway, I have a question for you, Ty:
How would you record the guy in the beginning of this video?
http://www.nordlys.no/web-tv/finnmarkslopet/article2637595.ece

I'm video-filming a dog sled race next month, and have to speak with the guys while they're working with the dogs.
Because I'm working alone I would think a cameramounted short shotgun would be the best, but I would like to hear your advice.

I can afford a Røde NTG-2, Audio Technica AT875R or maybe even a Audio Technica AT897. Which one would you recommend?
Are these any better than Røde Videomic?

I will probably use a Sony PD170 (or maybe a Canon HV20 video camera).

Thank you audio gurus for answering my posts! :-)



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Ty Ford
Re: I pass the baton to Ty
on Feb 10, 2008 at 11:47:00 pm

Hello Ole,

Sorry to be so ignorant. That's what we US folks do best. :)

I don't see a video on that link.

If you have to be working alone that's your choice. It will not necessarily yield the best audio. You want good audio you have to have mic near the person speaking. It's that simple.

Wireless if the area is relatively RF free.

Boom, mic, windgear, small mixer, plug in wireless transmitter, velcro the receiver to the camera. Align the audio system to the camera. Feed one track, use the camera mic pn the other track.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide






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Frank Thomas
Re: I pass the baton to Ty
on Feb 18, 2008 at 7:28:52 am

[Ty Ford] "Sorry to be so ignorant. That's what we US folks do best. :)

I don't see a video on that link."


Would that be the video with Roger Dahl in it?


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Ole Åsheim
Re: I pass the baton to Ty
on Feb 18, 2008 at 5:15:58 pm

Yes - you got it playing!
Ty, if it doesn't start at first click, hit the play-button again.
Last year I had only a omnidirectional dynamic microphone, and had to stay close to them to pick up sound. That gave me problems with pictures, so I will try to use a combination of directional microphone and lavalier.




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