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302 into Camera

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rick kadri
302 into Camera
on Jan 21, 2008 at 2:40:30 am

hi,

did anyone use the SD 302 mixer into the HVX200. I posted here since its audio related. When sending tone from the 302, what should be the tone set on the hvx? -20? -12?



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Ty Ford
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 21, 2008 at 2:20:29 pm

Welcome to the Cow Audio Forum Rick,

Set the 0 VU output of the SD 302 mixer to -20 on your camera.

Also please make sure you have the correct mic or line level positions on each device,
Line out to line in or mic out to mic in.

If your camera only has mic level inputs, always use the mic level output of the 302.

Also, also, put the 302 meter in peak and RMS mode and watch the peaks. Remember, in this mode, seeing +18 peaks on the mixer are hitting the camera at 2 dB below clipping.

Also, also, also set the 302 output limiter to +16 to catch unexpected peaks.

Good choice in mixers, btw.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
Watch Ty play guitar:





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rick kadri
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 21, 2008 at 11:26:20 pm

thanks ty. final question, i read ideally dialogue should peak at -12 leaving the extra headroom between -12 and 0 for occassional loud sounds?



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Ty Ford
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 22, 2008 at 5:41:33 am

Hello Rick,

-12 on your camera (which would be +8 on the 302) is a little low for peaks of regular conversation; like narrator stuff. I like peaks up around -6 on the camera (+14 on the mixer). Maybe a dB or two hotter. Again, set the 302 output limiter threshold to +16.

If you're doing dramatics and you know there will be excitement, then -12 might be OK for unattended operation. If you have someone mixing as you record, then the should be riding gain unless the ambient noise is so high that you really hear the noise get sucked up when you increase gain on a pot.

Regards,

Ty Ford



Want better production audio?: http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
Watch Ty play guitar:





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rick kadri
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 22, 2008 at 2:15:57 pm

ty, thanks for the response, i did a test recording yesterday with weird results. I turned on tone on the 302 at its default of 0 db and fed it into the hvx200 through line input and set the cameras input at -20. i recorded tone for a few seconds then
proceeded to do a test recording. when dialogue was an ok level it sounded alright, but when a yell came into the picture, it sounded horrible, as if the limiter was not fast enough.

so should the mixer settings be changed, like reference level or limiter level. please explain.

should i have the tone setting on the 302 at -20 then the camera setting at -20, or 0 on the mixer and -20 on the cam (thats what i did)

thank you



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Ty Ford
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 22, 2008 at 3:21:42 pm

Were you looking at the meters at the time of the yell?

We're they reading overs?

Are you positive you had the line/out/line in or mic out/mic in settings on the mixer and camera set properly?

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
Watch Ty play guitar:





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rick kadri
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 23, 2008 at 12:56:08 am

yes i had line input on the camera set. my question is should the 302 be set to 0 (default) then camera to -20 or
-20 on the 302 and -20 on camera.



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Ty Ford
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 23, 2008 at 2:34:19 am

Well first, please read the manual.

As I said before, 0 on the 302, -20 on your camera meters.

The 302 has a two stage input. You set the big channel pot to 12 o'clock and tweek the little channel pot one so your PEAKS read about +12 on the 302 meters.

Regards,

Ty Ford


Want better production audio?: http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
Watch Ty play guitar:





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rick kadri
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 23, 2008 at 2:39:12 am

thanks ty,the funny thing is i read the manual three times and set the mixer for 0db and -20 on camera, loud dialogue sounds distorted, the inputs are set correctly to line on the cam, the limiter is on on the 302 and off in the camera. everything is correct. thats why i was thrown off.

now i know iam sane, thank you again.



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Ty Ford
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 23, 2008 at 2:43:53 am

Well it's important to know WHERE the audio is distorted.

The mixer input, the mixer output, thr mixer headphone output, the camera input.
Trying to power a 48 V DC phantom poweerd mic with on 12 V Phantom, etc.

Through a process of elimination, you will find the problem.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
Watch Ty play guitar:





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Will Salley
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 23, 2008 at 2:54:24 am

The 302 should be at it's default (0db) and the camera to -20db.

However, I use that same camera/mixer combination often and prefer the following settings:

Mixer: line level out with reference tone @ 0db
limiter on mixer is on with threshold set to +10db
Camera: line inputs @ -14db

What this accomplishes is a slightly higher signal between mixer and camera - with the drawback of more likelihood of clipping in camera - but the 302's built-in limiter is far superior to the one in the 200. The worst part of the whole thing is the line delay in the headphone out of the 200, which needs to be monitored at all times.



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rick kadri
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 23, 2008 at 3:10:55 am

thanks for the response. when setting the 302 to 0db and the camera to -20, i find that i have to turn the pots on the 302 almost all the way up just to get an "ok" level in camera. for testing purposes, i set the tone on the mixer to 0 and then -12 on the camera, and the pots are about half way only!
so is it really worth it referencing to -20 in camera



does this have to do anything with the threshold setting. iam using the 416p shotgun going into the mixer but have to turn the pots all the way up. excuse my newbee'nes

thank you


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rick kadri
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 23, 2008 at 4:20:12 am

Ok, its silly but i will post again, i've been testing settings for two hours now. my conclusion:

since the reference level used is not a huge deal when recording, i can reference say to -20, -12, or 0 on the camera.

The limiters are really good on the 302 and i will still keep meters under 0 a few decibels, say -4 or -2.

i recorded a bunch of settings and found the best workflow for me would be to reference 0 on the 302 and 0 on the camera. then to leave that safety margin under 0. then in post, i can reference to any level i like.



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Ty Ford
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 23, 2008 at 1:01:05 pm

The reference level IS a huge. It is the ONLY deal.

Are you absolutely sure you have the metering set to PEAK reading?

There should be a solid band of LED, a space and then the peak LED even hgher.

Ty Ford

Want better production audio?: http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
Watch Ty play guitar:





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rick kadri
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 23, 2008 at 2:12:15 pm

TY, thanks for your help always. my problem is this: when referencing the 302 to 0db and the camera to -20 tone, then going to record something (using 416p), i have to turn the gain and volume pots all the way up to get a good signal on the 302.

All the setting are correct, the mic is going into mixer at mic level with the phantom power set at 48v, the signal is sent out of the mixer and into the camera at line level, input 1 and 2 are selected on the camera. so all the settings are correct.

when i reference at -12 or 0, i can keep my gain and volume pots
low or half way. Peak limiting basically shows you where the roof is right? is there another setting i can change to get a usable level referencing at -20

i grew up on picture making but now getting deep into sound knowing how important it is to movies.

thank you sir



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Ty Ford
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 23, 2008 at 2:25:28 pm

410.296.2868

Want better production audio?: http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
Watch Ty play guitar:





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rick kadri
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 24, 2008 at 1:24:37 am

first of all, i would like to thank everyone especially TY who spent time on the phone teaching me about the 302 more than the manual. second, i finally got it, but one problem, i dont know how it worked!

it just basically worked, mysteriously, i did nothing different
the mic came into the mixer at mic level and 48phantom, the pots are at tweleve oclock and used the trim function to get a good read out. 0db on the mixer and -20 tone on the camera, LINE level into the camera, and finally, i did a test recording, and its beautiful. for some weird, out of this world, unexplained reason, i had the pots all the way up and was barely getting level over -20. I'm weirded out, but its working fine now.

thanks again TY



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Ty Ford
Re: 302 into Camera
on Jan 24, 2008 at 1:38:13 am

::holstering my six gun::

Then my job here is done! :)

Regards,

Ty Ford


Want better production audio?: http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
Watch Ty play guitar:





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