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Lavs for legal work, depositions

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Allen Zagel
Lavs for legal work, depositions
on Oct 31, 2007 at 4:17:59 pm

Hello
I'd like some ideas about wired lav mics for doing deposition work. I'm sort of torn between the following lavs.

Right now money is tight but I'm leaning at either the AT 831B or the Shure SM93's They'll be connected to a Shure M367 Mixer. I need 4 to 5 of them.

These seem to be the most popular at the legal video group.

Sony ECM44b Lav's List $250 BSW $195 B&H $195
Audio Technica AT 831B B&H $149.95
Audio Technica AT 8537 B&H $199.95
Shure SM93 B&H $146.50

I'd appreciate any suggestions. Not sure what that sew-in mount is that comes with the Shure SM93, and in reading at B&H the AT 831B it says "The Audio-Technica AT831B is a miniature cardioid lavalier microphone with a sensitivity and frequency response suitable for professional video, broadcast and sound reinforcement applications. The cardioid polar pattern is effective minimizing off-axis signal, providing high gain-before-feedback while using nearby monitors and speakers."

Thanks
Allen Zagel


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cegelfand
Re: Lavs for legal work, depositions
on Nov 1, 2007 at 4:16:58 pm

Hey,

If you have specific audio questions in the future, you might also try a new forum @ http://www.locationaudio.net . It's a forum designed for film and audio professionals to solve all sorts of audio issues. Your questions and answers help others with similar issues.



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gizmo1160
Re: Lavs for legal work, depositions
on Nov 2, 2007 at 8:36:17 am

Thanks for the link... But not really a viable forum at the moment with only 13 registered users who have posted a total of 7 articles.
Maybe worth checking back later....


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Ty Ford
Re: Lavs for legal work, depositions
on Nov 1, 2007 at 4:25:41 pm

Hello Allen,

I think we can handle your questions here. :)

The 831b looks good on paper, but the 830 C omni sounds better.
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/e7e24e09738e83de/index.html

I have both.


AT also makes a mic that slips over the ear and snakes ou along the cheek.
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/c2bbc55a9ef29034/index.html

That's what I'd use if I had the chance but not the budget for a Countryman E6.

Regards,

Ty Ford


Ty Ford's "Audio Bootcamp Field Guide" was written for video people who want better audio. More at: http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
or http://www.tyford.com


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Allen Zagel
Re: Lavs for legal work, depositions
on Nov 1, 2007 at 7:05:09 pm

Hi Ty
Thanks for the response. The 83oC model is unterminated and without a power module. But yes, the specs do sound good. I'd have to get the model with the XLR connector and I assume the power module?

Can't use any over the ear stuff I don't think, for Legal Deposition work and that's what I'm using them for.

My Shure M367 Mixer does have phantom power.

Allen


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Ty Ford
Re: Lavs for legal work, depositions
on Nov 1, 2007 at 8:02:55 pm

Allen,

Yes with the power module. Sorry, I thought the link showed the variations.

Might want to ask about the over the ear one though, unless you're shooting video and someone is really hinky about seeing it. The audio quality with a mic that close to the mouth is really exceptional.The over ear mics do well even in nasty sounding environments.

If you want to hear my E6, look/listen to the Ty Ford Mic Tutorial.mp4 in the video folder in my online archive.

http://www.tyford.com

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty Ford's "Audio Bootcamp Field Guide" was written for video people who want better audio. More at: http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
or http://www.tyford.com


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Allen Zagel
Re: Lavs for legal work, depositions
on Nov 1, 2007 at 8:25:43 pm

Thanks Ty

It's the Audio-Technica MT830R B&H 179.95. I have all your videos and bought your book some time ago. Problem is the lawyers. Addicted to their cell phones and blackberries. ;-)

Hard enough for us to get them to clip on a lav let alone hang a mic over their ear. But ya know what? Let me ask over at the Legal Video forum (group) and see what kinds of answers I get there.

Thanks much for your help.
Regards
Allen


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Ty Ford
Re: Lavs for legal work, depositions
on Nov 1, 2007 at 8:52:16 pm

If they have to pay extra for noise reduction later because the noise makes it difficult to her what's being said, they may concede.

I get jobs from law firms from time to time where something went wrong with the deposition recording

I like your thought. Offer to make it better by asking. Having one to let them hear the difference also helps sometimes.

Reards,

Ty Ford

Ty Ford's "Audio Bootcamp Field Guide" was written for video people who want better audio. More at: http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
or http://www.tyford.com


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Allen Zagel
Re: Lavs for legal work, depositions
on Nov 1, 2007 at 10:44:06 pm

hehehe All I ever hear about deposition video work that had lousy audio was in the Legal Video group and all the excuses in the replies, and how one fellow has to fix another's goofs. I got to sift through the wording carefully to pick out the useful stuff. I don't think any of them got Sound Forge or Audition ha ha. They talk about Nero and Magix. And TMPGEnc encoder which isn't all that bad. And stand alone DVD recorders. And noise and hum from Air Conditioning and refrigerators and whatever. Also morse code from the blackberrys and cell phones that the attornies won't turn off. I guess legally we can't remove any noise without express authority from the attorney. That deposition Video's a legal document. I dunno yet. I'm too new at Legal Video but 5 years technical video and audio, most of which I learned here and in the Vegas forum.

I just upgraded to Vegas 8. Got DVD Architect and DVD Lab Pro and just bought Sorensen Squeeze 4.5 power pack. Quite a few of the legal video guys are using the Optibase or Digital River encoding cards and Nero to burn.

Actually Ty, you're right and that over-the-ear mic makes a lot of sense to me even though it's a bit more expensive.

I'll find out the results of my post in a day or two as the post keeps floating around. It's a regular news group.

You and me here along with most of the other members here and in the Vegas forum are coming from Video/Audio backgrounds.
These Legal Video "professionals" are a breed unto themselves. ;-) Even tho they come from varied backgrounds and education, Most are college and a good many come from the broadcast industry. You'd think they'd know audio better than what I hear in the group.

Although I do have to change some of my thinking on shooting video. I just recently got my CLVS (Certified Legal Video Specialist) certification from the National Court Reporter's Association after classes and 2 tests. One written and a production test.

It may just be worth my getting 2 of those and letting the folks at the depoitions make the final decisions. Easier to get on and off anyway and clips don't break, and I can always sell the lavs.

Allen


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Allen Zagel
UPDATE: Lavs for legal work, depositions
on Nov 5, 2007 at 11:56:01 am

Hi Ty

Well, as I sort of figured, it was about 50/50 for the over the ear, but for legal work 70/30 against. One of the main problems mentioned especially by the female members was the hair and skin thing. Another fellow who uses them in other production work said he carried a box of alcohol wipes with him.

After much reading and discussing, I decided to go with a few of the Shure SM93's, mainly cause the money is running out. Something to start with until I get going and get my feet wet. A few members use those and were very happy with them.

Thanks for all your help. I'll be back when I need some more;-)

Allen


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Ty Ford
Re: UPDATE: Lavs for legal work, depositions
on Nov 5, 2007 at 1:32:59 pm

Allen,

Fascinating. I have never had a problem getting the e6 on someone, from men or women. The fiercest response has been, "I usually use a lav. What's this?"

I can't help but wonder if by asking if there were a problem, you didn't create one.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty Ford's "Audio Bootcamp Field Guide" was written for video people who want better audio. More at: http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
or http://www.tyford.com


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Allen Zagel
Re: UPDATE: Lavs for legal work, depositions
on Nov 5, 2007 at 4:50:20 pm

Ty
No I never asked if there was a problem. I just posted that I was looking at this one or that one and what suggestions there were. Then I metioned that I had come accross information about the over-the-ear mics and if anyone had used them or given thought to them.

A couple of responces were "neat idea". Other's said about face and hair and yet some others said about beards and someone scratching their faces. A few said they used them for other than deposition work. That conversation could have gone on and on and I needed to make a decision.

I do appreciate your help and suggestions. However it's becoming a money situation here and at $30-$50 difference in prices, that's why I chose what I did to get going. I just ordered the last of my equipment from B&H. Portable background, Totalight and the lavs. I'm reaching the end of my finances for now ha ha.

Thanks
Allen


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