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FP33 adjust output

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eyecamiam
FP33 adjust output
on Aug 28, 2007 at 2:53:30 am

FP33

I use my FP33 often to help adjust the sound levels coming off house mixers for our pd170s.

The signal is often over-modulated. According to the manual, the FP33 has


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Matte
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Aug 28, 2007 at 9:25:12 pm

No need for volt meters, etc.

Set the Camcorder's audio input(s) to LINE-level.

Send tone out of the FP33 mixer at "0" VU.

Set the adjustable (manual) audio level on the camcorder to about -10 or -12 (or -18) dB.

Make sure that your input TO THE MIXER is set correctly for the type of source being sent.
As in, if you have a LINE level from the house console, make sure you are feeding a line input setting on the FP33.

Do a test before the shoot and listen with your headphones coming first directly from the FP33 MIXER... then, listen coming from the CAMERA'S audio output.

Everything should sound "clean."


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eyecamiam
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Aug 28, 2007 at 11:12:41 pm

Thanks Matte,

I do all the steps you outline.

However: what I want to do is

"...set the VU Meters to a value other than the factory setting (0 VU = +4 dBm)..."



OSX 10.4.7; Quicksilver Dual 1 gig; FCP 4.5, 3.0.4; Sony camcorder vx2000/pd170; write professionally for a variety of media;teach video production in L.A.


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edward  chick
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Aug 29, 2007 at 12:10:15 am

Matte is right on with his advice. Another option(s) are to set the outputs of your fp33 to Mic level, set input levels on your 170 to mic as well. Some prosumer cameras can not handle a true (+4db) line level signal. I have an XL1 that does not like line level, it distorts very easily, with hardly any head room. When I use it in mic level, I get a good, clean signal, with lots of head room. Always test before you shoot and monitor at camera or via a return line from camera.
FWIW.


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eyecamiam
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Aug 29, 2007 at 2:11:36 am

Thanks,

Yes, if coming from a house board, I often go line level into the mixer and then mic level out and mic level in to the pd170.

However, I am trying to get the mixer's output line level to be adjusted to the level the camera likes. As you say the default is +4, which is too hot for the camera. But the advantage of line level is it will cut the need to boost the pd170s preamp, which is not all that great.

According to the mixer's user manual, it is possible to adjust the line out level. So far, I only use this mixer with my camera, so I have no need for a +4 line out.

I


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John Fishback
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Aug 29, 2007 at 2:02:37 pm

All the advice above is good. Another idea is to have a couple of line pads in your kit. These attenuate any signal by -10, -20 or -30db. This means you can leave you mixer at 0=+4, stick an attenuator after the mixer and your output is now -10 with a 0 reading on the mixer.

Here's an example of an attenuator I found at Markertek. I'm sure there are more out there.

http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=BB%2DPAD%2D10&off=1&sort=pr...

John

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Matte
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Aug 29, 2007 at 2:25:42 pm

Here's a simple low-cost line-level adjustable pad that you can build.
Vary the amount of padding by adjusting the VR (Variable resistor or potentiometer.)

Use one for each channel, between the mixer and the camera.

You'd use XLR connectors for Input and Output.
XLR Pin 2 & Pin 3 are the Input and Output lines.
XLR Pin 1 is the shield.
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Matte
Re: FP33 adjust REVISED DRAWING of PAD
on Aug 29, 2007 at 7:21:46 pm

REVISED the DRAWING-

Wiper on VR (potentiometer) is shown connected properly.

Here's a simple low-cost line-level adjustable pad that you can build.
Vary the amount of padding by adjusting the VR (Variable resistor or potentiometer.)

Use one for each channel, inserted between the mixer and the camera.

Use XLR connectors for Input and Output.
XLR Pin 2 & Pin 3 are the Input and Output lines.
XLR Pin 1 is the shield.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


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eyecamiam
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Aug 30, 2007 at 12:54:34 am

Thanks.

I could add several of these to my next order and it would help regardless with the line in from other over-modulated boards. However, I'd like to set the FP33 to -10 out. Why add weight to the xlr lines and spend $90 when the mixer has adjustable output? The FP33 has been an industry standard for a long time. I'd like to learn how to adjust the output. However, if it does take expensive gear to make the adjustment, then I guess the attenuator is the way to go, for now. It is what Rose recommends in his book.

Does the attenuator plug into the mixer directly or elsewhere in the XLR path?


OSX 10.4.7; Quicksilver Dual 1 gig; FCP 4.5, 3.0.4; Sony camcorder vx2000/pd170; write professionally for a variety of media;teach video production in L.A.


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Thax
Re: FP33 adjust output
by
on Aug 30, 2007 at 2:55:51 am

[eyecamiam] "Does the attenuator plug into the mixer directly or elsewhere in the XLR path? "

Makes no difference as far as quality or effect.

Connected in the output jack of the mixer.

Connected in-between two XLR cables.

Connected in the input jack on the camera.

All the same.

I'd suggest the second choice so that you don't put any extra weight on either the mixer or the camera.


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eyecamiam
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Aug 30, 2007 at 3:22:47 am

THANKS



OSX 10.4.7; Quicksilver Dual 1 gig; FCP 4.5, 3.0.4; Sony camcorder vx2000/pd170; write professionally for a variety of media;teach video production in L.A.


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Kerry Brown
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Aug 31, 2007 at 10:58:02 pm

Go to Radio Shack puchace 2 1200 ohm 1/2 watt resistors, put them in parallel (=600 ohm) across the output of the FP33 pins 2&3 of the XLR. Buy a $5 volt meter at Radio Shack or Home Depot.
Set it to AC , lowest voltage scale and measure the voltage.

KB


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eyecamiam
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Sep 1, 2007 at 4:43:36 pm

Thanks Kerry,

First answer, including emails back and forth to Shure, that is concrete enough given my level of electrical experience


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Thax
Re: FP33 adjust output
by
on Sep 1, 2007 at 5:56:53 pm

[eyecamiam] "Question: how do you physically attach the two resistors to pins 2 and 3? Gaffer


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eyecamiam
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Sep 1, 2007 at 6:45:24 pm

"You understand that if you reset the meters, that will have ZERO effect on the actual LEVELS coming out of the mixer, right?"

No I did not understand this. Thanks. So other than pads there is no way of adjusting the actual levels? Will the sound devices 302 output at the right level (-10)?

PS: I'm sure some one could explain to me how to attach the resistors to the XLR pins. Or how to build the home made pads.





OSX 10.4.7; Quicksilver Dual 1 gig; FCP 4.5, 3.0.4; Sony camcorder vx2000/pd170; write professionally for a variety of media;teach video production in L.A.


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Kerry Brown
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Sep 1, 2007 at 9:32:46 pm

"You understand that if you reset the meters, that will have ZERO effect on the actual LEVELS coming out of the mixer, right?"

Not true, the first adjustment is for the output level and then you adjust the meters.


KB


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Kerry Brown
Re: FP33 adjust output
on Sep 1, 2007 at 9:36:11 pm

I also advise him to find a tech friend to help.

KB


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Thax
Re: FP33 adjust output
by
on Sep 2, 2007 at 3:17:18 am

[Kerry Brown] "Not true, the first adjustment is for the output level and then you adjust the meters."

All this procedure does is reduce the "volume" level (output signal level) using the controls and then adjusts the meter to compensate the reading to match the lower level.

Its no different than simply turning down the "volume" a bit (and just ignoring the meters.)

To reduce the actual output from the mixer, you need pads.

The difference would be very noticeable if, say, there was hum or hiss coming from the output section amp of the mixer.

Just turning down the input controls would reduce the signal level... but would not lessen the noise level.

But adding PADS would reduce the noise level as well as the signal level.



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Mr.love
Re:shure FP33
on Jan 10, 2008 at 8:26:52 am

hi guys i need some help with my shure fp 33 when it is no and it is working i test it with camera but the peak/lim is not moving any help thanks ?


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