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Richard
An Industry question?
on Oct 21, 2006 at 6:13:16 pm

Why do producers (and directors) expect you to simply work for free?

I mean, no one would ask a cameraman to bring their own camera and film for free.. why do these people ask you to bring 10K worth of sound gear and work for free?

Are there sound mixers out there doing it for free?

-Richard


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Matte
Re: An Industry question?
on Oct 21, 2006 at 9:44:15 pm

I think you need to give more info.

Where are you located?

What is your experience-level?

Exactly WHO and for what kind of project is the attempt being made to get audio work and gear for free?

Unless its for family or by special arrangement for a "charity" of some kind, audio ops DO get paid in my part of the country (midwest).


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Richard
Re: An Industry question?
on Oct 23, 2006 at 6:34:00 pm

>>>Where are you located?

The Greater LA/OC area!



>>>What is your experience-level?

Worked a bunch of low budget (paying) feature films now.. working my way up the ladder.



>>>Exactly WHO and for what kind of project is the attempt being made to get audio work and gear for free?

It seams about half of the craigslist or Mandy ads are posted something like this.. "I need a Sound Guy (to come bring all his equipment down) and help me shoot my (crappy, half ass) film. I can't pay anyone but I'll give credit (a blip on the screen) and food (cookies) for the 3 weeks of shooting. Your work will get exposure (how a sound guys work gets exposed I don't know) and I will maybe pay you on the next film (if there is one)."

Come on guys.. you've seen these ads haven't you?


>>>Unless its for family or by special arrangement for a "charity" of some kind, audio ops DO get paid in my part of the country (midwest).

Yeah.. I might do it for one day and I'd better get IMDb credit for it.. :)

But in general.. I'm thinking of saying, "Yeah.. I'll do it".. and then hit them up for a massive rental bill for all my equipment!! :)

-Richard



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Matte
Re: An Industry question?
on Oct 23, 2006 at 7:24:17 pm

[Richard] ""Yeah.. I'll do it".. and then hit them up for a massive rental bill for all my equipment!!"


There's a big difference between BILLING for rental and getting PAID.

;-)


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Richard
Re: An Industry question?
on Oct 24, 2006 at 1:17:46 am

Good point. :)


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Steve Wargo
Re: An Industry question?
on Nov 7, 2006 at 5:36:59 am

Unless it is for a good cause such as a PSA for a needy organization, where everyone is donating their time, simply laught at them and hang up the phone. There will always be someone who thinks that you have nothing to do but donate to their having a better life. Of course, if you need to learn a new skill or if there is a special challenge or something, the situation might be different. We own a $160,000 HD camera set-up and you should see the requests that we get every week. Don't get me wrong. It's been donated to The American Cancer Society, The United Way and others. Everyone else pays. As W.C. Fields once said: "There's a sucker born every minute". Don't let it be you.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona

It's a dry heat!


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Ty Ford
Re: An Industry question?
on Oct 22, 2006 at 4:20:59 am

There are shooters, editors and sound folk who give it away for any of a number of reasons.

I was doing sound for a national radio PSA. A video crew with a Sony HD (not HDV) camera and full lighting package showed up. I was told they were doing it for free because of the cause.

In other situations, when you're just getting started, some will bend over on the rate. When they screw up because you don't know what you're doing, they make it better for folks like me.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty Ford's "Audio Bootcamp Field Guide" was written for video people who want better audio. Find out more at http://www.tyford.com


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Tom
Re: An Industry question?
by
on Oct 27, 2006 at 12:54:10 pm

Just to add to this for you Richard. I am located in Chicago and have seen the ads on Craiglist. Seems to me they are placed by young people stating out or still in college thinking they have the next geat script. Saying they have no money or budget. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against young people, I was young once too. If i wanted something, I worked for it, worked at jobs I really didn't like to pay for what I wanted. If I see a script I like I may decide to help out, I tell them, next time I will give you my rates. there are some serious people out there with good scripts and there are others like who called me last week, wanting rates, and to find out they don't even have a script or location. Now before I give rates I ask to see a script. Don't get fustrated, there is good work out there , just have to find the correct people. Good luck As far as craig list goes I don't have a lot of faith in it

good luck
Tom


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Richard
Re: An Industry question?
on Oct 30, 2006 at 9:46:54 pm

I never read the script.. Personally, I don't really care about the movie. Anyone can have a good script, and the director can totally screw it up! So, I don't even care really, because too many factors I can't control.

This doesn't mean that I don't care about my job. I care about the shot, and I take one shot at a time, and my main concern is what time do you want me there?

To me it seams like when someone ask you too do something for free, they are asking people they don't even know to "invest" in some project that most people don't even care about. Asking for free work is like saying, "Hey, I just want to get this going, so I look good, and your on your own buddie".

I'm just not sure how a director or producer can look you in the face, ask for free work, and then say to be sure that you bring all your equipment costing you near 10K!!! Do they think I just got all this recording stuff for free?

-Richard




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tom
Re: An Industry question?
by
on Nov 3, 2006 at 12:19:23 pm

The main reason I like to see the script is what kind of shot is it , ext , int. How many people do I hav to pick up ? one , two fifteen in a room ?

later
Tom


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Will I Am
Re: An Industry question?
on Nov 3, 2006 at 12:27:38 pm

They are able to ask with a straight face because people will respond. Taking these jobs is just reinforcing the pattern. Stop helping these guys out and let them learn the folly of bringing an amatuer to do a professional job. So you don't work that particular project; consider it an investment into the future when they realize their mistake and actually raise a budget for their next production.

Human nature, laziness, and supply and demand means these guys will always exist. It is your job to advance beyond them.



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Richard
Re: An Industry question?
on Nov 6, 2006 at 9:21:17 pm

I think that pretty much sums it up. I hope to god people aren't taking these jobs..

-Richard


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Steve Wargo
Re: An Industry question?
on Nov 7, 2006 at 5:39:43 am

As I said above: There's a sucker born every minute.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona

It's a dry heat!


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