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Recorded audio speach in big hall. How to get rid of the echo?

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Allen Zagel
Recorded audio speach in big hall. How to get rid of the echo?
on Apr 24, 2006 at 12:55:51 am

Hi

Had to shoot a video today and the room was not good for audio. It was a large hall and the audio was bouncing all over. Sounds hollow or like an echo. And we even had the speaker wearing a lav! No other mics connected. It was speech only, no music. Not sure which FX to use in V5 to make it sound more like a studio recording. Not sure of the terms I should use here. Sorry.

Can anyone give me some ideas? Maybe EQ but which one?
Thanks
Allen


My web site features;
China, China Railways and music.
http://www.azagel.com

Video site;
http://www.asxvideo.com
NEW! Shanghai MagLev DVD.


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Will Salley
Re: Recorded audio speach in big hall. How to get rid of the echo?
on Apr 24, 2006 at 1:59:33 am

Are you sure you are not monitoring a track with the camera mic? It's very unlikely that a lav would be picking up that much room tone, unless it was a cardioid that was improperly placed or had fallen from the clip.

Unfortunately, there is not much that can be done to rectify such a recording. My suggestion would be to try a noise gate with a soft threshold to reduce the reflection (echo).


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Allen Zagel
Re: Recorded audio speach in big hall. How to get rid of the echo?
on Apr 24, 2006 at 11:05:49 am

Hi Will
No. I had 2 seperate audio recordings. The on-camera VX2000 mic but I also recorded with my Marantz PDM660. The lav was connected to the 660. The Lav was clipped to his tie fist length from his chin and it also picked my voice up from 20 feet away. The lav belonged to the technician and I believe he said it was a ECM55B.

I was very surprised because at first I had my AT897 shotgun on a boom pole not 5 feet oer his head and it picked up more from the side than the front.

Thanks, I'll try the noise gate. Someone else at the Vegas forum suggested I try to get a sample of the echo and use Sony's noise reduction.

Allen

My web site features;
China, China Railways and music.
http://www.azagel.com

Video site;
http://www.asxvideo.com
NEW! Shanghai MagLev DVD.


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Matte
Re: Recorded audio speach in big hall. How to get rid of the echo?
on Apr 24, 2006 at 11:53:27 am

[Allen Zagel] "Someone else at the Vegas forum suggested I try to get a sample of the echo and use Sony's noise reduction."

Sampling an "echo" for reduction will not work.
That kind of "sampling and removal" is for continuous noise like a constant hum or hiss.

The echo/reverb is an analog of the audio that you DO want... constantly changing as the talent speaks.


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Allen Zagel
Re: Recorded audio speach in big hall. How to get rid of the echo?
on Apr 24, 2006 at 3:55:28 pm

Thanks Matte
Guess we'll just have to lie with it. Tape has been run and it's off to China this morning.
Thanks again
Allen

My web site features;
China, China Railways and music.
http://www.azagel.com

Video site;
http://www.asxvideo.com
NEW! Shanghai MagLev DVD.


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cowcowcowcowcow
Ty Ford
Re: Recorded audio speach in big hall. How to get rid of the echo?
on May 1, 2006 at 11:24:17 am

OK, here's the thing.

Generally, there isn't a lot you can do if no one listened to the audio and determined some thing was wrong as the audio was being recorded. My motto remains, "Always listen, ALWAYS.

What can cause this? I'm guessing, but I have been in situations in which the designers of the hall have placed speakers directly above the podium or stage; speakers that can't be turned off.

As for a solution, if you can find a facility with a CEDAR Noise Reduction system, you MAY find that you can reduce SOME of the slap. This is a 6-band system and, while NOT designed to reduce echo and reverb, it can help.

This will work much better than expanders and/or gates because they create an uneven effect. Not their fault, they weren't designed to do this job either.

I was talking to the CEDAR folks at NAB about this specific point and expect to have one of the units here shortly.

Regards,

Ty Ford



Ty Ford's "Audio Bootcamp Field Guide" was written for video people who want better audio. Find out more at http://www.tyford.com


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Allen Zagel
Re: Recorded audio speach in big hall. How to get rid of the echo?
on May 2, 2006 at 10:04:40 am

Thanks Ty
Was hoping to meet you at NAB. I'm having all sorts of problems with the Sony Noise Reduction both in Vegas and Sound Forge. Can't seem to understand how to work it. All the instructions and print I'm getting doesn't seem to match my version, whatever that is.

I got it to work once but didn't remember what I did! ha! I don't even know how to see what version I have.

I recently got Audacity and have been looking at Adobe Audition but for me, the audio and noise reduction plugin in Vegas seems to be enough. If I could only learn and remember how to use the Noise Reduction plugin. It's the same in Sound Forge. ugh!

Met an old friend Fred Ginsburg at the AT booth but we talked about mic's and lavs. I didn't have the shotgun close enough to the speaker's head and the lav the tech provided wasn't the right one for the instance. I'm going to get an AT 803 for next time. And find another room if possible. ;-)

Anyway this was a sample draft going to CCTV for approval of a TV production and I just shot the intro and ending of 2 lessons. So it was mainly content and not quality they were looking for at this time. Next time I'll shoot it here and use Seruois Magic Ultra 2 for the set.
Allen


My web site features;
China, China Railways and music.
http://www.azagel.com

Video site;
http://www.asxvideo.com
NEW! Shanghai MagLev DVD.


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Ty Ford
Re: Recorded audio speach in big hall. How to get rid of the echo?
on May 2, 2006 at 1:08:21 pm

Hi Allen,

I did catch up with Fred and his cart at NAB. Nice work on that SignVideo ENG-44 mixer. I like it better than any Beachtek I've seen.

The NR software I've used from most folks is a little touchy feely. It's about setting a threshold and then pulling out the noise some and then resetting the threshold or one of the other parameters and wiggling around some more.

That's because noise is quite complicated, especially when you're trying to extract something you want to keep from it.

I remember reviewing the Sony Oxford and finding it was great at making the audio go from horrible to pretty good, but getting it really clean was almost impossible without artifacts that were as bad as the noise. Other NR softwares are similar. There's a NR in Apple's Soundtrack Pro I've been working with lately that's working pretty well. Similar to the others, and not without GUI weirdness (no, I haven't read the entire manual 8(.

That 2.4 GHz "Bluetooth" lavalier mic from Ricsonix was VERY interesting. I'm curious to see how that will evolve.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty Ford's "Audio Bootcamp Field Guide" was written for video people who want better audio. Find out more at http://www.tyford.com


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