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Please help a confused Producer

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sacci
Please help a confused Producer
on Jul 26, 2005 at 6:36:45 pm

This keeps coming up and I seem to get a different answer each time.

When recording a live concern event the client normally brings in their own people to do the multi-track audio recording of the concert and they usally use a Pro Tools rig. We record our cameras iso to DBeta decks and have timecode sent to everyone.

The question I have is what should the Pro Tools rig be set to.

In NTSC video world as I understand it we have
30 fps (Non-drop frame) and
29.97 (drop frame)

But with audio there seems to be a lot more options
30 fps
30 fps drop frame
29.97
29.97 drop frame

is there someone that work a lot with this that can tell me "set video to x, and audio to x, and you should be good to go."

Thanks.


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Matte
Re: Please help a confused Producer
on Jul 26, 2005 at 9:24:19 pm

[sacci] "In NTSC video world as I understand it we have
30 fps (Non-drop frame) and
29.97 (drop frame)"


There's your problem.

Drop-frame and Non Drop frame have nothing at all to do with FPS.

30 fps is the SAME format as 29.97 fps (there IS no actual 30 fps in video, its just what we CALL the actual 29.97 fps.)

There is a difference (in the COUNTING system) of 108 Frames (or 3.6 seconds) per hour of time.

Drop-frame just compensates for this tiny difference between actual frame NUMBERS and real TIME (at regular intervals there will be a "missing" TC number... that's how DF compensates for the difference.)
So if your show is supposed to be 59:10:00 in length, the DF TIMECODE at the end of the show will read 59:10:00

NON Drop-frame just always counts EVERY frame, in continuous order, NOT compensating for the difference in "frame-time" and "real-time"... so if you edit in NON drop-frame, the show (even though it is still EXACTLY 59:10:00 in length) the TC will be a bit "farther along" than 50:10:00 (it might be near 59:14:00) in its count at the end of the show.

Remember, this has nothing to do with the SPEED of the tape or the number of frames actually recorded.
It is only in how the frames are NUMBERED (and either system can cause confusion if the user does not understand the difference).

Neither system affects speed or quality, but which ever way you set up your recording, make sure ALL units are set the same way... it causes less confusion during the edit.



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sacci
Re: Please help a confused Producer
on Jul 26, 2005 at 9:51:31 pm

matte,

I understand that, but my confussion is there seems to be a lot more choices in Pro Tools (which we do not use or have at our studio)

We record 29.97 to our decks and that is what our TC generator is sending out to video and audio record.

Now I have people telling me the Pro Tools should be set to 29.97 and others telling me 29.97 drop-frame.

The show we just shot was done with video truck send 29.97 to the audio rig and the Pro Tools set at 29.97 Drop-frame. Is that correct or are we in for a sync issue?

Thanks again.


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Matte
Re: Please help a confused Producer
on Jul 27, 2005 at 5:42:58 pm

As I said, drop-frame vs. non-drop-frame is NOT a speed or frame issue (its just NUMBERS assigned to individual frames) so it will not cause true SYNC problems regardless of how it is set.

But most software will automatically determine which type of TC is coming in from an external source and lock to it.

If your gear has only 2 choices (i.e. "29.97 and 29.97 DF"), then assume that the 29.97 is NON Drop-Frame.


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sacci
Re: Please help a confused Producer
on Jul 28, 2005 at 1:10:28 am

[Matte] "As I said, drop-frame vs. non-drop-frame is NOT a speed or frame issue"
No where have I stated that I thought it was a speed issue.

[Matte] "If your gear has only 2 choices (i.e. "29.97 and 29.97 DF"), then assume that the 29.97 is NON Drop-Frame."
That is the problem, Pro Tools has a lot more than 2 choices. And I would rather not assume anytime, I would like to know.

Video has 2 - 30 (NDF) or 29.97 (DF)
Pro Tools has 30, 30 DF, 29.97 and 29.97 DF.

All I would like from some that has done live concert recording (audio) is an answer like

"Set your video decks to 29.97 and the Pro Tools to 29.97 (or 29.97 DF or even, either will work fine)"


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