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deinterlace originally film footage.

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therman mermehn
deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 16, 2017 at 8:39:24 pm

I have a very old television show I'm working on deinterlacing. I do know the show was originally filmed and not taped at 24fps. However , at the time it was changed to a 29.97fps interlaced file which worked fine for broadcast at the time but not so much now and i'd like to change it back to 24fps. The issue I'm having is when moving the file into premiere , I can interpret footage to either use low or upper field , this however results in quality loss which would seem normal , however... some of the frames are not interlaced in the file , and those frames look very good. when I select to use upper or lower fields it essentially ruins all of the frames and not just the interlaced ones.

So essentially it's like this , how do I repair a video file that was originally 24fps film that was moved into a 29.97 interlaced file? I know that the interlaced frames are just frames from the original 24fps film so technically there isn't real fields.

Whats frustrating is when I play the dvd the source material is on , it plays normally and looks fine.


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John Heiser
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 16, 2017 at 9:02:08 pm

You might want to jump into AfterEffects to do this, and from there export a file you can work with in Premiere. I've looked in Premiere and can't find a ready way to do it. Here's a link to the AfterEffects workflow:

https://helpx.adobe.com/after-effects/using/importing-interpreting-video-au...

The tricky part is going to be making sure the pulldown cadence is consistent throughout the entire program. If it was indeed one long playout from film to tape, you're in business. If it's 23.98fps film footage transferred to 29.97fps tape and then edited, the cadence may change at each edit and you're in for a world of hurt.

Good luck!
John


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John Heiser
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 16, 2017 at 9:11:29 pm

A quick search here in the Premiere forum yielded this post from a few years ago:
Last time I tested, if you add a 29.97i clip to a 23.976p or 24p then Premiere will reverse the pull down, guessing simple 3:2 pulldown.

If the clip looks wonky, then you can right click > interpret footage and set it to advanced pulldown or have it guess.

It may have functioned differently in previous versions but Premiere has been quite good in recent years about making footage conforming seamless until you go in and tweak clip parameters.


I haven't tried this, as I don't have any 3:2 footage, but it's worth a try!


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therman mermehn
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 16, 2017 at 10:47:23 pm

ok i think i understand 3:2 pulldown a bit better.

it would seem it changes between shots/scenes as to where the 3:2 pulldown begins

may I ask how does the dvd footage play normally on the pc , but then when ripped it's ripped incorrectly?


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Ann Bens
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 16, 2017 at 10:28:22 pm

Post screendump of clip in Mediainfo in treeview.

-----------------------------------------------
Adobe Certified Expert Premiere Pro CS6/CC
Adobe Community Professional


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therman mermehn
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 16, 2017 at 11:39:13 pm

this is what the dvd file looks like



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therman mermehn
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 17, 2017 at 12:21:23 am

ok after a bit of googling this might have something to do with pull down flags on the dvd? supposedly i need a way to remove them when ripping the video but I'm not quite sure how to do that.


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Chris Wright
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 17, 2017 at 12:40:31 am

1. does it work if you interpret video fields lower or upper and place into 23.976 sequence? or do you still see fields?
try both upper and lower first.

2. sounds like an old school problem. first, put it in after effects, interpret fields up/low into a new composition 23.976. it should spread the frames correctly. if not, then click detect guess pulldown type.

if that doesn't work, then place video into a composition double its framerate 59.94. then hit PgDn and write down 10 frames for us in this format. Each field will then get its own frame.
W=whole frame
S=new frames

If you get a pattern after 10 frames, it should look like WWSSW then another WWSSW or something. then go back, and change ae's reverse pulldown cadence to this.

3. if you have no repeating pattern whatsoever, then the pulldown cadence is variably changing, in which case use alchemist OD, virtualdub, fcp compressor to remove adaptive ivtc. which can include 2:3:3:2, 2:3:2:3 and the strange 2:2:2:4


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therman mermehn
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 17, 2017 at 2:12:30 am

ok alchemist OD appears to not be a free program

virtual dub doesn't appear to support vob files at all

and again final cut pro is also not a free program.

vob files will either crash premiere if i try to open them , or if i try to open vob files in after effects they appear corrupted.


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Chris Wright
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 17, 2017 at 2:48:26 am

aw, direct opening vob's. gotcha.

https://forums.adobe.com/message/6034981#6034981


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therman mermehn
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 17, 2017 at 4:54:41 am

ok that program xvid4psp also shows the videos being corrupted when trying to open them in the program


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Chris Wright
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 17, 2017 at 5:32:25 am

did you try renaming it to .mpg?

that's really odd. Jim Simon's helpful program XviD4PSP works with a lot of people. did you select uncompressed avi and wave?

i used to use a program called vob to avi. its still free i see. if you choose some compressed codec, you'd had to get the same plugin support for your editor. that's why uncompressed avi is recommended, plus there's no quality loss.

short of sending a vob example to us, I don't know what to tell you except try another vob to avi converter with uncompressed or codec support. you can check the codec with mediainfo in tree view.


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therman mermehn
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 17, 2017 at 5:42:23 am

i cant even get the program to simply play a preview of the vob file in the program. I also tried moving the file off the disk and renaming it to .mpg .

windows media will play the disk just fine so I know its at least working



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Chris Wright
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 17, 2017 at 6:52:51 am

looks encrypted to me.


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Ann Bens
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 17, 2017 at 11:18:52 pm

If you drop this interlaced footage in a interlaced sequence with upper field and the display mode to first field and you are seeing interlaced artifacts I am guessing the file is not as it should be. Fields have been messed about.
BTW i cannot get Jims program to work properly either.

-----------------------------------------------
Adobe Certified Expert Premiere Pro CS6/CC
Adobe Community Professional


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therman mermehn
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 18, 2017 at 12:13:31 am

[Ann Bens] "If you drop this interlaced footage in a interlaced sequence with upper field and the display mode to first field and you are seeing interlaced artifacts I am guessing the file is not as it should be. Fields have been messed about.
BTW i cannot get Jims program to work properly either."


I AM able to do the following.

I was able to rip the vob file using a program called "dvd fab" however...

it will either copy the file without doing any sort of deinterlacing which means its a 29,97 fps file with the 3:2 pulldown intact. Or , it will do it's own terrible deinterlacing and give the file a "frame blended" effect.

when I have the non deinterlaced file with the 3:2 pulldown intact , the 3:2 pulldown changes sequence every time the scene cuts or changes. I CAN fix this in adobe and somehow get it back to normal 23.97fps however , the quality takes a dive and gives the video a "no anti aliasing" effect.


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Chris Wright
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 18, 2017 at 12:54:06 am

if you place the 29.97i into after effects and into a 59.94 comp, each field will become its own frame, then simply
download the duplicate frame removal script and it should remove the duplicate frames, thus deleting the embedded duplicate fields. render that out as new 23.976 comp no fields. should not matter if the cadence changes.

http://aescripts.com/duplicate-frame-remover/


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therman mermehn
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 20, 2017 at 2:38:50 am

Alright I've almost given up on this

The problem appears to be that ripping the dvd footage yields a non deinterlaced 29.97p file. I've now tried SIX different free ripping programs. All of which rip the same type of file. ALL of these programs have deinterlacing options which only yeild a frame blended 29.97p file which of course looks terrible.

The only thing I've found that can have any effect on the 29.97p semi interlaced file is premiere which simply remove an entire field resulting in massive quality loss.

I still don't understand how the dvd can play perfectly fine , yet not be ripped perfectly fine. How the dvd playing program can easily figure out that the show is 24fps and play it in perfect quality , but every ripping program cannot figure that out.

what a headache


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Jody Bruchon
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 20, 2017 at 3:25:32 am

VirtualDub does support MPEG-2 though not with just the stock program. FccHandler's plugins are an absolute must-have for anyone using VDub. You specifically need the FccHandler MPEG-2 plugin and when you File - Open Video File and select the first VOB file, you need to also check "Ask for extended options after this dialog" underneath the file browser. One of the extended options for the MPEG-2 handler is to open multiple VOB files as a single file; check that and it'll try to auto-pick the successive VOBs for you, but you can edit the list before opening.

Once you're in VirtualDub, you'll need to set the video menu to "full processing mode" and you'll need to use two filters: IVTC (inverse telecine) followed by Deinterlace. IVTC will give you options for field order and field assembly; it sounds like you want to "reduce frame rate" in that dialog and leave the others alone unless the field ordering is incorrectly detected by Autodetect. If you want to preserve the 24p frame rate, the Deinterlace filter options you want are "Blend fields" and "Keep X field, interpolate/discard Y field" (depending on the field order; try "Keep top field" first, change if that doesn't work right).

You'll also need to pick a codec under Video - Compression or you'll get an uncompressed RGB export. I've been using UtVideo for intermediate lossless encoding and that may work for you; other options include Lagarith or the FFV1 compressor provided by ffdshow, but I've had issues with those options before so I think UtVideo Rec.601 4:2:0 is what you'd be best exporting to from VDub.


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Chris Wright
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 20, 2017 at 5:04:19 am

Jody,

that's helpful instructions. virtualdub seems like it has a good chance of doing everything in one pass. the newer virtualdub has an adaptive pattern phase ivtc filter (set field assembly mode, reduce framerate. pretty amazing its all free.


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Chris Wright
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 20, 2017 at 3:35:38 am

no, your original assumption is incorrect. your video should look like this in mediainfo if its really 23.976.

Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps <-------
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Scan order : 2:3 Pulldown <-------

see the difference?

that's because of mpeg2 flags; you can have all sorts of mpeg2 DVD stuff. some is 23.976 with 3:2 pulldown flags, others are 29.97i regular alternating interlaced frames, others if you had a 29.97p, it would be converted into 29.97i with progressive interlaced frames each frame 2 fields complete image.

you probably have a 29.97i with fields permanently burned in, no flags whatsoever!!!

that's why you need to analyze the fields and write down frame by frame to see fields and complete frames ie. WWSSW in after effects.
what troubleshooting steps have you done in premiere, after effects? tried placing it in 23.976 sequence in premiere, interpret lower/upper? a 59.94 comp in AE? deleted duplicates frames with AE script or ffmpeg?

if, for some reason, there is no pulldown burned in, you have a doubly messed up video stream and might just need to deinterlace with qtgmc.


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therman mermehn
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 20, 2017 at 5:57:13 am

From what I can see every dvd ripping program seems to throw away the pull down flags. which I'm guessing tell the player what order the pull down is in?

I know that the 3:2 pull down changes order every scene so I cannot simply fix it with after effects. I might be able to get something close but as soon as the scene changes it's no longer in sync anymore.


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Bouke Vahl
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 20, 2017 at 10:00:54 am

Get a 29.97 i file from a ripper, and put that into Resolve.
Let the scene detection run, check it. (Or use my ReCut app that I originally designed for this type of work, restoring old movies.)
Render out individual clips of all shots.
Import those into AE, set 'interpret field', and let it guess. (Interpret fields can be set in batch, don't know if the 'guess' will work in batch though.)
Then, re-assemble the show.

Yes, it takes time, but not that much.
And it WILL work.

There might be a problem at cuts that are on an interlaced frame, as the full frame info is just not there anymore. Those might have to be trimmed out, meaning you have to trim out some audio here and there as well, or speed up the sound.

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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therman mermehn
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 20, 2017 at 8:54:27 pm

If this was one episode it would be easy to do that but it's a few hundred , lol.

I think what I'll do is this (as backwards as it sounds) I'll just play the dvd and screen record the output from the player. Sure it'll take a long time but each episode will at least play correctly. lol

BTW.....

if I upload one of these files to a public sharing site would any of you be willing to take a look at it and see if you can get it in order? I saw someone mention it earlier and maybe it would be best


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Bouke Vahl
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 20, 2017 at 9:21:58 pm

A few hundred shots or a few hundred episodes?
If it's a few hundred shots you should be done with it already by doing it manually.

And, if the player can remove the pulldown on the fly (which I don't believe if there are cadance breaks in the original master tapes), and you output over HDMI, it won't be that bad.

But a true 23.976 DVD (I made lots of them) will have the pulldown added by the player, it's not in the encode. Thus it will not have cadance breaks.

You suggest the DVD's are made from NTSC edited masters, from film that has been scanned to tape with added pulldown.

You can put up some stuff for others to look at. But first tell me, what is it? And how much do you have? And do you have budget?

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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Jody Bruchon
Re: deinterlace originally film footage.
on Aug 21, 2017 at 11:47:55 am

What happens if you just copy the VIDEO_TS folder from the DVD to the computer and then try to open the first large VTS_xx_x.VOB file within using an MPEG-2 capable media player? You should get video. If it just looks trashed then the DVD needs to have CSS encryption removed first, but from what I can tell you're using software that doesn't just decrypt the VOBs but also transcodes video files from them.

You need to work with the original VOB files and you need to use VirtualDub with FccHandler's MPEG-2 plugin as documented in my other post to process the interlacing and pulldown the way you want. Ripping software tries to do stuff like this for you and may get it wrong.


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