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Mismatched timecode from Avid migration

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David Dean
Mismatched timecode from Avid migration
on Jun 8, 2017 at 8:58:31 pm

Hi - I'm having to recut in Premiere a program that was originally cut on Avid MC 7, and the resolution of the offline was 28:1. I've been trying to figure out how to up-rez the media to the desired 1080, but I'm having a hard time linking clips that are now called "FILENAME.new.sub.01," etc. But that's not the issue I'm writing about. I've migrated the Avid project to Premiere, using an AAF, and most of the media has shown up. But in trying to match the shots in the new Avid-to-Premiere timeline, I'm noticing that the timecodes are completely wrong. Check this out:



This is parked on the identical frame. The blue clip on V2 is the original 1080 file; the purple one underneath is the low-rez clip that was part of the Avid migration. And yet the timecodes are 50 seconds apart. Now, I've never done this kind of migration before, so I don't know if there's anything I might have done in setup that might have caused this much discrepancy. But can timecodes get messed up in translation like this? I've also created a screenshot of the properties of the two clips, in case something is glaringly obvious (the compressed one is a QT movie and the full-rez is MXF). Once I get a sense of a solution for this, I can try to understand how to automate a full up-rez. Many thanks...



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Jamie Pickell
Re: Mismatched timecode from Avid migration
on Jun 8, 2017 at 9:29:52 pm

David,

I've had timecode issues before, but not in the scenario you're describing. That being said, I wonder if the solution I found might help you out.

I sometimes need to import audio stems from a mix session and occasionally I would have issues where the timecode of the stems would not match the timecode of the master QT file. What fixed the problem is going to Premiere Pro > Preferences > Media and making sure the Intermediate timebase is set for the frame rate you are cutting in (it's the option in the middle of the window) and make sure Timecode is set to Use Media Source. Once you makes these changes, you will have to re-import the footage in order for it take effect.

Hope that helps,
Jamie



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David Dean
Re: Mismatched timecode from Avid migration
on Jun 8, 2017 at 10:34:15 pm

Hi, Jamie - thanks for responding so quickly. Nothing changed when I attempted your suggestion - I created a brand-new project and set the timebase preference to 23.976 (which has been consistent throughout all the versions), and then tried two things: opening the sequence from the other project, and re-importing the AAF that I created from the Avid. In all cases the timecode of the full-rez MXF file did not match the TC of the low-rez version, and the numbers of the matched frames were the same difference as the screenshot I posted (in other words, they were still 50 seconds apart).

So darn. Still stuck. And truly grateful for the suggestion.

David


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Brent Marginet
Re: Mismatched timecode from Avid migration
on Jun 8, 2017 at 11:11:17 pm

The problem I do believe is the AAF's that Premiere imports or exports.
I have never had Premiere ever import or export a proper AAF.
I'm not even sure why Adobe includes the feature when it never works.

As an example if I export an AAF from Premiere and bring it into Resolve every video clip is off.
One will be 11 frames another 13 frames and so on, almost every clip is off by a different amount of frames. Exporting a FCP XML works but not AAF's.

I know your going from Avid to Premiere but I don't think it's ever been fixed and is therefore useless. Maybe try to flatten the timeline in Avid as much as possible and export an EDL for each individual Video track. Import the EDL's into Premiere one at a time an then combine each into one timeline.


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Mismatched timecode from Avid migration
on Jun 9, 2017 at 8:57:24 am

Concidering your TC, and the 50 seconds offset, it looks very much like a DF / NDF issue.
Another givaway, your audio displays DF tc, where 23.976 is always NDF.

I have had good luck with AAF from Avid to Premiere, but only if the export / import is done on the same machine.

So, are you sure the Avid project is 23.976, as well as your Premiere settings?

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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David Dean
Re: Mismatched timecode from Avid migration
on Jun 9, 2017 at 2:56:16 pm

Thank you, Bouke - this is getting more mysterious. The original Avid project, which I did not originate, appears to be 23.98, NOT 23.976. The project even has "2398" in its NAME. Here are the properties of the sequence:



And here's a representative low-rez shot from the Avid timeline - you can see that the fps is 23.98.



Now I'm in Premiere, where I don't seem to be able to create a 23.98 sequence using any preset, and here is the same shot at full resolution. This is imported directly from the finder, and the timecode is 23.976.



Notice that there are no dropframe semicolons on any clip. Also notice that the first frame of the timecode in both clips is the same, 15:43:53;14. I can tell you that the end timecodes and durations match as well. The Premiere sequence is 23.976 - again, I don't see an option to create a 23.98 version, and ultimately it's all going to be modified to 29.97 for broadcast (the post house will deal with that). And yet, here's the identical frame, from late in the clip - the directly-imported full-rez on the left, the migrated low-rez on the right. And the timecodes don't match.



Does this make any sense to anybody? I really, really don't want to have to eyematch all the shots in this show to get them to the full HD version if the timecodes aren't going to match. Thank you all for your patience...

David


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Mismatched timecode from Avid migration
on Jun 10, 2017 at 7:40:34 am

Well, 23.98 DOES NOT EXIST.
Someone at Apple once thought it was a good idea to call it that way, causing a lot of confusion and bad math.

Your problem is a DF / NDF issue. Not sure where that happens. Do the math. The difference is 0.1% (Calculate the start time to seconds, and multiply by 0.001, you end up with your 55 secs.

Why not finish in Avid? Or, conform in Avid and take a mixdown to Premiere.

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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David Dean
Re: Mismatched timecode from Avid migration
on Jun 10, 2017 at 4:52:59 pm

Thanks once again, Bouke. I am trying to figure out the DF/NDF issue between the projects in both systems. I am cutting in Premiere because I haven't edited a project in Avid in five years and I am more comfortable with PP at this point.

I am confused by your statement that 23.98 fps does not exist, however. I've read a great many comments in other forums about my problem before I posted it here, and here's something directly from the Avid website:



I will continue to work on a solution. Thanks.

D.


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Brent Marginet
Re: Mismatched timecode from Avid migration
on Jul 8, 2017 at 6:06:43 am

23.98 is the lazy way of saying and typing 23.976, as pointed out earlier 23.98 doesn't really exist.

With DNx36 available I don't understand why anyone would use this archaic method of creating an SD - 23.976 Project anymore. I stopped using that at least 10 years ago.

Give this a try, install a trial of Avid or if you can get ahold of someones license temporarily.
This could be tough because the .sub or sub clips could still cause you some grief.

Create a 1080p - 23.976 Project and then copy all the bins from the SD Project into the 1080p Project Folder.
Now open the Timeline in the 1080p Project, it will ask you if you want to convert it to a 1080p Sequence.
Once you have that open try relinking everything in this project and then export another AAF.

I've done this in the past and it worked but there were no sub clips to deal with.
It might take a bit of doing but hopefully this works and then you can be on your merry way.

"MY MEDIA MOTO: If you think three copies of your media is enough.
Take a moment to place a value on it and then maybe add two more.
Hard Drives are now stupidly cheap. A RE-SHOOT AND YOUR TIME AREN'T."


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Brent Marginet
Re: Mismatched timecode from Avid migration
on Jul 8, 2017 at 6:41:40 am

A couple more thoughts.

You will have to try and relink the master clips, not the sub clips. If successful the sub clips may relink to the HD Media as well.

While your in either Project try to find the last Sequence that was created without the sub clips. Those likely exist because the Sequence was Consolidated.

"MY MEDIA/PROJECT MOTO: If you think three copies of your media or project are enough.
Take a moment to place a value on them and then maybe add two more.
Hard Drives are now stupidly cheap. A RE-SHOOT AND YOUR TIME AREN'T."


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