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Premiere Pro lagging with H.264

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James Agro
Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 24, 2017 at 10:50:54 am
Last Edited By James Agro on Mar 24, 2017 at 10:52:50 am

Hello everyone, I've found a problem, in which Premiere Pro (preview) lags and skips around when attempting to edit H.264 directly, and I was told to just re-encode to something like utvideo, which works, but I'm working with around 100GB of H.264, and re-encoding this is going to take many times as much space and time. So, something that I've noticed is that Aftereffects seems to preview the video fine, however, Premiere Pro seems to lag, and not like the files at all, unless they are re-encoded, then they work flawlessly.
My system specs are:
AMD Ryzen 7 1800x @ 3.8GHz,
32GB DDR4 @ 2113MHz
GTX 1080 GPU

Which should be fine for editing, correct? So, I'm not quite sure if this can be solved, as i previously edited H.264 directly with my i7 system, which I no-longer have.
Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: I have tried enabling/disabling CUDA and yes, PP and AE both have access to 28GB's of system memory. Also, CPU utilization is extremely low >2%. I'm working with 20Mbps H.264 in 1080P.


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Jud Archer
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 24, 2017 at 11:53:27 am

James,

The advice you were given is the correct answer. H.264 is an extremely processor intensive codec and is not generally considered good for editing. Basically it is so compressed that your computer's cpu is having to decode it on the fly, which is a big burden. Choose a DNX or ProRes variety proxy file.

The latest version of Premier will automatically convert to a proxy on import if you set it up that way. Have you experimented with this? If your computer has trouble playing the DNX or ProRes then there are bigger problems going on. Perhaps drive speed?

Good luck.

Jud Archer
Apple / Adobe Systems



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Dave LaRonde
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 24, 2017 at 2:41:14 pm
Last Edited By Dave LaRonde on Mar 24, 2017 at 2:51:28 pm

I've got to say I have never heard of utvideo. Not once. It sounds dodgy to me. I would forget it.
QTs in Prores or an Avid-developed codec are great. If you're worried about storage, it's a sure indicator that you don't have enough to take on this job and immediately need to get more. On a fast drive AND a fast connection.

Bite the bullet. Transcode the footage.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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James Agro
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 24, 2017 at 3:56:19 pm

Thanks for your responses, However, I used to run an i7 4790, and that ran this same type of footage perfectly. But since I've got my new CPU (Ryzen 7 1800x 8c/16t) it is lagging. Does anyone think the issue could be to do with this?


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James Agro
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 24, 2017 at 3:59:45 pm

Also, I forgot to include, that I also get a green (thing???) like this at the 00:00:00:0/01 in premiere.
https://i.gyazo.com/3d2b289c5a7a0346d17c216508efbde7.png

Also, in the Project box

https://i.gyazo.com/7bf0a1a41bc62582af84aae3ca8a36a4.png

This file is only 1.8GB large.


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Jon Doughtie
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 24, 2017 at 8:13:31 pm

One things that has not yet been mentioned is how and where you are storing your video. Where is your footage, and what is the connection type to the system? Internal drive, External? How connected? Please don't say your footage is on the C drive.

System:
Dell Precision T7600 (x2)
Win 7 64-bit
32GB RAM
Adobe CC 2015.02 (as of 6/2016)
256GB SSD system drive
4 internal media drives RAID 5
Typically cutting short form from HD MP4 and P2 MXF.


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James Agro
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 24, 2017 at 10:10:22 pm

Well, I've tried multiple locations, including SSD (C:\) WD Blue (HDD) and a RAM disk, neither of which changed the result, also all internal.


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Chris Borjis
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 24, 2017 at 11:51:48 pm
Last Edited By Chris Borjis on Mar 24, 2017 at 11:55:02 pm

I have to second the thought that you really shouldn't have to transcode h.264
I haven't had to transcode anything since going from fcp 7 to premiere cs 5.5
The only footage that ever slows me down is Red4k these days.

I have an early 2009 mac pro with raid storage, 32gb of ram and
an old GTX 670 and CC 2015.2. Thing cuts h.264 like a hot knife through butter.


Have you tried lowering the program window resolution?

Maybe do a google search of premiere cc editing with the new Ryzen cpu?



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Dave LaRonde
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 25, 2017 at 1:02:11 am

Yeah, I've never even heard of a Ryzen CPU. Since you mentioned that this started when started running it, I've been wondering about that.

It may be cheap (don't know), but I don't think it's great for Adobe applications.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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James Agro
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 25, 2017 at 10:43:37 am

Well, Ryzen is a brand new Architecture from AMD, It's an 8 core 16 thread CPU, It does outperform the $1000 Intel CPU often. It was designed for productivity, and reviewers show Premiere Pro benchmarks, in which it outperforms or matches the i7 5960x 8 core 16 thread CPU, which can be seen here:



.
I'm still a bit stumped on this whole thing, since I doubt it's anything to do with the CPU at all anyways. It could be, but I think it's some kind of software bug.

Thanks for the responses.


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James Agro
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 25, 2017 at 11:39:08 am

So, after long days of trying to solve this, I found it was an issue with the output of the recording software I used (OBS). For some reason, OBS .mov's and Premiere don't play well. However, when transcoded to ANY other file container, work perfectly. Not just raw codecs, but .mp4, .mkv, etc. Thank you all for the help, and sorry for the burden of false flags.


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Jon Doughtie
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 27, 2017 at 6:26:10 pm

If that OBS you mentioned created variable frame rate videos, that is indeed the source of grief. You'll always want to transcode anything variable frame rate (like anything recorded on iPhones with the native app) to a codec with a fixed frame rate.

System:
Dell Precision T7600 (x2)
Win 7 64-bit
32GB RAM
Adobe CC 2015.02 (as of 6/2016)
256GB SSD system drive
4 internal media drives RAID 5
Typically cutting short form from HD MP4 and P2 MXF.


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Chris Borjis
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 27, 2017 at 8:23:42 pm
Last Edited By Chris Borjis on Mar 27, 2017 at 8:24:16 pm

[Jon Doughtie] "You'll always want to transcode anything variable frame rate (like anything recorded on iPhones with the native app) to a codec with a fixed frame rate."

Ran into that recently with a live stream captured webinar.

Oddly media encoder CC 2015.2 will not fix that for a transcode,
but using apple compressor 3.5 to transcode does.



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James Agro
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 29, 2017 at 9:19:44 pm

Nope, It was a constant frame-rate. It really just has problems with .mov from OBS, I really don't understand why, but since I'm using .mp4's from it, it works fine.


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Chris Borjis
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Mar 27, 2017 at 8:21:53 pm
Last Edited By Chris Borjis on Mar 27, 2017 at 8:25:08 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Yeah, I've never even heard of a Ryzen CPU. Since you mentioned that this started when started running it, I've been wondering about that.

It may be cheap (don't know), but I don't think it's great for Adobe applications."


It reminded me way back in the days when I was a pc tech, it was either the AMD K5 or K6 cpu
could not run the then current version of photoshop.


Good to know AMD has put that in the past.


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Lorenzo Ciuciat
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Jul 23, 2017 at 8:26:17 pm

Hi, I hope to reply clearly to your question.
Following topics need to be know to understand the cause of the problem & the solution: stream, containter, index, transcode.

Adobe Premiere Pro cannot create a "transparent" index of raw H264 stream, so EVERY reposition in the timeline need a WHOLE reload the entire file (it doesn't matter if you go at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of the clip in the timeline). I have just verified this problem with APPRO 2017.1 using a raw 264 stream (without any container).

The simplest and faster solution is NOT TO TRANSCODE (any re-encoding of a stream modify the original stream: it can only become worste in quality) but to MUX the stream in a proper container. I usually use "FFMpeg" to do this task, with you HW specs you will be able to mux at OVER 1000 FPS (with a decent SSD).

You can use the following command to mux the single raw streams into a single muxed file:
ffmpeg -i video.264 -i audio.ac3 -vcodec copy -acodec copy muxed.mp4

Once muxed in the mp4 container via ffmpeg you can put it in the timeline in Premiere Pro and "VOIT LA" everything will be over 1'000x faster! (value based on a 13 GB raw h264 file: the bigger the file, the faster the index in the container will result).

Hope this will be useful for you. This cause can be self-checked using Microsoft (ex Sysinternals) "procmon" (Process Monitor) utility.

Lorenzo Ciuciat


Useful Links:
https://www.ffmpeg.org/
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/processmonitor.aspx
https://live.sysinternals.com/Procmon.exe


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Chris Wright
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Jul 24, 2017 at 1:08:01 am

does the file size change with muxing? any quality loss? 10 bit support? if this works, then adobe should implement muxing instead of transcoding proxies.


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Duke Sweden
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Jul 24, 2017 at 2:50:06 pm

I have ffmpeg properly installed. Still figuring out how to mux a file named, say "hello.mp4" (or hello.mov, for that matter). I typed in your command ffmpeg -i video.264 -i audio.ac3 -vcodec copy -acodec copy muxed.mp4 and I get, in red, video.264: No such file or directory.

What would be the proper syntax? Also, if I have a folder with 100034.mov to 100045.mov, how would I mux the entire folder?


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Lorenzo Ciuciat
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Jul 24, 2017 at 6:05:38 pm

but "mov" files are already muxed... they have VIDEO and AUDIO in the same files... 'right?


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Duke Sweden
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Jul 24, 2017 at 7:13:42 pm

So does an mp4 file. I thought mux was a totally uncompressed file which, if I misunderstood you properly takes no time to transcode. So your "muxing" method is only to combine audio and video into one file?


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Lorenzo Ciuciat
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Jul 25, 2017 at 12:06:26 am

exact: muxing with the 2 parameters I wrote before (-vcodec copy -acodec copy) simply put the same streams in the container so there is NO transcoding (and no quality loss... and max speed!)


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Jul 24, 2017 at 10:24:59 pm

"MUXED" is an abbreviation of "multiplexed". It refers to embedding the audio within the video track. Quicktime movies (mov) have a video track plus separate audio tracks within the same file. I don't know of any quicktime codec that will even support muxed audio.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Duke Sweden
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Jul 24, 2017 at 11:19:53 pm

Thanks, Dave. It appears I've been duped!!! Which is NOT short for duplicated!!! ;-)


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Lorenzo Ciuciat
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Jul 24, 2017 at 11:57:45 pm

neither do I: I don't user QT codec so i don't know the internal coding ☹

Thank you for sharing your knowledge here, anyway! :)


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Sunderland Green
Re: Premiere Pro lagging with H.264
on Nov 7, 2017 at 10:01:10 am

H.264 is an outstanding distribution format, But it is not a good editing format when you care about image quality, render speeds, or lots of effects work. Why Premiere Pro CC lags and skips when playing H.264 is that H.264 is mathematically intense. It takes some serious computer horsepower to decode its compression.


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