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Frame io or Adobe Team Projects for working with an editor in another city?

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Max Smith
Frame io or Adobe Team Projects for working with an editor in another city?
on Dec 15, 2016 at 3:45:39 pm

Hello there,

For an upcoming project we will be working with an editor in another city. Which of these would you recommend for doing remote editing? The editor would be doing only offline editing and would have a different folder structure within his computer so I'm not sure what difference that makes or what complications it creates. Essentially we want to be able to have him do almost all of the offline editing and for us to be able to pick up and make changes to whatever he has worked on at any given moment. If there is another software that you prefer please let me know, or if you have had any issues with either one that I mentioned above.

Thank you very much!

M


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Frame io or Adobe Team Projects for working with an editor in another city?
on Dec 15, 2016 at 4:01:04 pm

[Max Smith] "The editor would be doing only offline editing and would have a different folder structure within his computer so I'm not sure what difference that makes or what complications it creates"

How does the phrase, "It will create every problem in the world for you" sound?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Max Smith
Re: Frame io or Adobe Team Projects for working with an editor in another city?
on Dec 15, 2016 at 4:04:42 pm

It doesn't sound good haha. So let's say we get the folder structure outside of premier in sync. Would I still be encountering a large amount of problems with either of these softwares?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Frame io or Adobe Team Projects for working with an editor in another city?
on Dec 15, 2016 at 7:32:38 pm

Do you intend to use Creative Cloud for teams?

If so, I have to tell you -- I have heard absolutely ZERO discussion about using it. None. Which leads me to two conclusions: no one in these forums is using it, or it just doesn't work as advertised & everyone's given up on it as a bad job.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Alex Udell
Re: Frame io or Adobe Team Projects for working with an editor in another city?
on Dec 15, 2016 at 8:47:09 pm

Hi...

based on what you are talking about

1) deciding on and maintaining a folder structure would be pretty important. At the very least you can have intelligent discussion about where an asset is supposed to be located if something goes wrong.

2) before importing any media into the project all parties should enable "Preferences>Media>Write XMP ID's to files on import". This will reduce the possibility that PPro would re-import the same asset multiple times if you are intending to work old school and try to just import sequences from your editor's project file. This reduces unnecessary Project bloat.

3) If you are importing sequences fro your editor's Project file, use the media browser. This let's you pick and choose what you want as opposed to having to whole sale import the project from your editor.

4) Teams looks like it would be more appropriate for you if you are all editing. But honestly it's so new...give it a thorough testing before applying to real world work. I have no hands on with it but based on what I have seen, this would be more of what you describe.

FrameIO Iooks awesome as well, but it would seem to me that it doesn't so much exchange projects, but media assets and annotations from review and approval. This could ALSO be useful to you, but it's not the project exchange you are looking for directly.

That's what I can add....hope that helps.

Alex Udell
Editing, Motion Graphics, and Visual FX
Let's Connect on Linkedin
Examples: Retail Automotive Motion Graphics Spots
Example: Customer Facing Explainer Video
Example: Infotainment & Package editorial


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Don Hertz
Re: Frame io or Adobe Team Projects for working with an editor in another city?
on Dec 16, 2016 at 4:26:03 pm

Hi Max,

Frame.io thoughts:

I've used Frame.io on several projects. It's great as a review and approval tool, not for true collaborative editing. Our projects were large, so transferring all of the footage through Frame.io was prohibitive from a timing standpoint. Editor #1 preps the footage, folder structure, and creates a Premiere project at his location. Then the entire thing is shipped on a drive to editor #2. Each works on their own part of the video, again, it's not collaborative. We can then send review versions of our edits directly from within Premiere to FrameIO using their free extension panel. Those reviews can include markers - so we can place notes throughout the timeline before uploading. The producer logs into their Frame.io account (works on web browser, ipad, smartphone, etc.), watches the edit and leaves their own comments. Comments can be general or frame accurate. They can even use drawing tools to circle something on a particular frame that needs fixing. Those comments come back to the editor as markers in the their timeline. We all like the workflow, it's a step up from using Vimeo but it's not really collaborative editing. If your project was small enough you could transfer the full resolution video and audio files through Frame.io, but then the workflow is pretty much the same.

Adobe Team Projects:

I have not yet used Team Projects, however, I have used the Adobe Anywhere which is the collaborative editing solution that Adobe is turning into Team Projects. With Anywhere, the production company bought their own servers and ran the entire solution themselves. With Team Projects, it looks like Adobe is installing similar servers themselves and letting users connect to those for the collaboration. At least that's my guess, since the functionality looks identical to what we used with Anywhere. With that in mind, my notes are specifically based on my Anywhere experience, NOT the newer Team Projects version of the solution. Anywhere is true collaborative editing. Multiple editors can have the same timeline open at the same time, each making their own changes. When changes are made, an icon changes colors for the other editors, letting them know changes are available for syncing to their own system. They can then choose to review what was changed and accept the changes to their own sequence if they want. It's slick, and worked better than I expected. However, a few things to keep in mind:

1. With Anywhere, the servers were local to the production company (although the editors were remote), so someone there could quickly load up media through a much faster connection than uploading through the internet. With Team Projects, the servers are at Adobe, so all full resolution media will need to be uploaded through Creative Cloud. This could be time consuming based on the amount of footage you have.

2. You'll want all remote editors to have a pretty fast and reliable internet connection as the servers are streaming the footage into the editing system in real time as you work (and yes, that works!). If the connection goes down, no editing can be done until it's back. Adobe recommended at least 25mbits to the client at the time, although I know they were working on reducing that through better stream optimization. Our editors each had 50 so it wasn't an issue. This feature sounded impossible to me until I used it, it actually works, and I had no issues with lag while editing. It felt just like I was working on media at my local machine - although the resolution was proxy level. It sends a full frame when you pause, so we could color grade and tweak effects on full res frames. (The solution did locally cache any frames it had already streamed down too, so that helped that it wasn't repeatly pulling the same frames down over and over again.)

3. You will probably want to stay away from third party plug ins. In the case of Anywhere, every machine had to have them installed in addition to every Anywhere server in the server room. So you couldn't buy 1 copy of a plug in, you have to have several. We stuck with built in effects only. I suppose you might be able to work around it by applying the plug in to a clip, exporting the clips, and bringing it back into the project as a new clip with the effect already applied. When a local editor adds a new piece of media to the project, Adobe recognizes it as such and automatically begins uploading it to the server in the background.

4. When we used Anywhere, it only worked with Premiere. If we wanted to take any elements to another software package for additional work, you have to work around it by exporting everything you needed to your local system. Go do the work in a separate software package, then re-upload the new clips to the Anywhere server. It wasn't ideal, and we mostly kept to Premiere as a result. It looks like Team Projects now supports After Effects and Prelude, which is great. But if you want to take your audio to use Audition, Resolve, Maxon, or anything other than those 3 applications, you'll need to the exporting/importing routine mentioned above.

5. One benefit of the above server approach is that the servers were fast, and they were handling all of the rendering, not the local Mac, which just became more of a client system. So renders and exports went very quickly as they had the full power of the multiple servers installed in the production companies server room to draw on.

So bottom line, decide how important collaborative editing is to your project, versus just review and approval, and whether the above drawbacks of the Adobe solution outweigh it's benefits. And as others have said, test both workflows thoroughly before committing! Frame.io has a free version with limited storage space that will let you test all you want before committing to a monthly plan.

Good Luck.

Sincerely,

Don Hertz
DH Media, Ltd.


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Alex Udell
Re: Frame io or Adobe Team Projects for working with an editor in another city?
on Dec 17, 2016 at 11:12:08 am

Don....

thanks! That's great info.

you inspired me to go re-watch the the Teams intro video








I think the workflow will be somewhat different from Anywhere in that you will have optional ways to handle the media location.

Instead of streaming media from a central server....

Looks like each team member can have a local copy (with their own file pathing)
or you can create low res proxies (via the proxy function of Premiere Pro) that get shared between sites via syncing with Creative cloud.

That's pretty slick.

Alex Udell
Editing, Motion Graphics, and Visual FX
Let's Connect on Linkedin
Examples: Retail Automotive Motion Graphics Spots
Example: Customer Facing Explainer Video
Example: Infotainment & Package editorial


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Jeff Handy
Re: Frame io or Adobe Team Projects for working with an editor in another city?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 6:22:37 pm

Have you tried it out? I haven't found it particularly helpful myself.

HandyGeek


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