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Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF

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John Pilgrim
Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 22, 2018 at 10:33:35 pm
Last Edited By John Pilgrim on Oct 22, 2018 at 10:35:10 pm

We are having big trouble with some Sony Venice MXF footage.
Premiere is misinterpreting the Media Start timecode across several days worth of shoots.
The problem reproduces in both Premiere 2018 and 2019, on multiple machines, in old and new project files, and even after clearing the cache and aggressively deleting XMP and other sidecar files.
Please see the graphic below for more description.
Since the text on that graphic isn't web searchable, here's a summary of the issue:
We received a drive from our DP and copied it onto our NAS, as we have successfully done dozens of times before.
We ran the footage through Adobe Media Encoder to make smaller MP4s with burned in timecode for the producers to review, as well as WAVs for transcription.
As we started editing using selects notes with TC from the producers, it became clear that the timecode was off.
Upon investigation, we ascertained that Premiere had the Media Start timecode screwed up.
Nothing we've done has been able to get the timecode correct, short of manually going clip by clip and using Interpret Footage/Timecode to set the correct timecode as an Alternate Start Timecode, which is not an acceptable solution in a busy post-production studio.
Anybody been having similar experiences, or have a solution?
Thanks in advance,
John
San Francisco, CA




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John Pilgrim
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 22, 2018 at 11:08:33 pm

PS: Sadly, After Effects also is showing the incorrect timecode for the start of these clips. :-(



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Dave LaRonde
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 23, 2018 at 12:10:48 am

It almost looks like a Drop Frame / Non-Drop Frame issue. Is it possible?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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John Pilgrim
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 23, 2018 at 2:48:10 am

Yes, the correct and incorrect time codes seem to be related by a drop-frame/non-drop-frame conversion relationship, but I have yet to find anything in the Premiere UI that would give us control over the footage interpretation such as to be able to resolve the issue.



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John Pale
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 23, 2018 at 12:15:56 pm

I doubt it has anything to do with this (it shouldn’t), but there is a preference setting for sources with indeterminate timecode. If its set for Drop Frame, you might want to flip it to Non Drop and see if that has any effect. Again, its not supposed to affect files that actually have a timecode track, but what the heck? Won’t hurt to try.


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Robert Withers
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 23, 2018 at 4:09:52 pm

Sorry I don't have an insight or solution, but I have seen threads here and elsewhere about errors in Adobe product timecode.
Perhaps search this discussion group.
Good luck,
Robert

Robert Withers

Independent/personal/avant-garde cinema, New York City


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Shane Ross
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 23, 2018 at 5:41:02 pm

Wait...there is no such thing as 23.98 drop frame...so why would Adobe have an option for it?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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John Pilgrim
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 23, 2018 at 6:11:34 pm

Shane, Exactly.
But the problem we are experiencing would appear to be a software glitch wherein the Media Start TC in the MXF is ingested as drop-frame and converted to non-drop and presented in the user interface, stored in the project file, and stored in the various media cache metadata files that Premiere stores.
I have characterized the problem, but I have yet to understand (a.) what causes it, (b.) how to prevent it, and (c.) how to correct it once it has occurred.
I have a workaround described in my OP, of assigning the correct Media Start TC in the Premiere (or After Effects) Interpret Footage dialogue, but that's not really workable for hundreds of clips.



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greg janza
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 23, 2018 at 7:00:58 pm

Unless something has changed, Premiere has a long-standing bug of not correctly reading media file timecode when applying a window timecode reader. I first noticed this problem at least a year ago.

My workaround when I've had to create window burns of media files affected has been to adjust the starting timecode of the window burn. I don't think the actual media file timecode is incorrectly interpreted by Premiere.

Windows 10 Pro | i7-5820k CPU | 64 gigs RAM | NvidiaGeForceGTX970 | Blackmagic Decklink 4k Mini Monitor |
Adobe CC 2018 12.1.2 | Renders/cache: Samsung SSD 950 Pro x2 in Raid 0 | Media: Samsung SSD 960 PRO PCIe NVMe M.2 2280 x 2 | Media: OWC Thunderbay 4 x 2 Raid 0 mirrored with Resilio


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John Pilgrim
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 23, 2018 at 7:27:17 pm

Fortunately, our Premiere Timecode effects have been matching the source media
And as a colorist I pay close attention to timecode because bad timecode means a bad conform (and lots of wasted time) in Color (rest in peace), Resolve or Scratch.


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John Heiser
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 23, 2018 at 8:50:04 pm

Well, it sounds like you have this covered, but you might check your AME preset. I used to have what I thought were issues with window burns, and it turned out it was my error in the AME settings. I didn't have the "match source" box checked on Video > Frame Rate. That doesn't seem related to drop/non-drop mathematics (and again, 23.98 drop frame? WTF?) but I just thought I'd toss it into the discussion.

John Heiser
Senior Editor
o2 ideas
Birmingham


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John Pilgrim
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 24, 2018 at 3:23:48 am

I'm quite confident hacking around in XML files and Premiere ".prproj" files are XML, so…
Looking through some ".prproj" files I created in both Premiere CC2018 and CC2019, containing either (a.) the original MXF file with the wrong Media In timecode or (b.) a MOV transcode of the MXF that has the correct Media In timecode, I found the following.

The TL;DR is that Premiere CC2019 has two bugs:
1. it misinterprets the Media IN timecode of MXF files on import
2. it misinterprets the Media IN timecode of MXF files when converting a CC2018 project file





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John Pilgrim
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 24, 2018 at 7:27:41 pm

Here's a better annotations:




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John Pale
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 25, 2018 at 12:11:09 am

Okay...you have convinced us....now you need to contact Adobe support. They won’t fix it if nobody shows them the problem.


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John Pilgrim
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 25, 2018 at 12:18:20 am

Indeed. We contacted Adobe support last week and got the usual call center blather. I've been waiting on a call back from "someone more senior" in their support organization.
This has also been posted on Adobe's Premiere forum, but no one from Adobe has responded.
https://forums.adobe.com/message/10698786



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greg janza
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 25, 2018 at 12:25:50 am

I suggest you join the "Adobe Premiere Pro Editors on Facebook" group on facebook and search out Wes Howell. He's an Adobe systems employee who might be able to connect you with the Premiere engineers.

Windows 10 Pro | i7-5820k CPU | 64 gigs RAM | NvidiaGeForceGTX970 | Blackmagic Decklink 4k Mini Monitor |
Adobe CC 2018 12.1.2 | Renders/cache: Samsung SSD 950 Pro x2 in Raid 0 | Media: Samsung SSD 960 PRO PCIe NVMe M.2 2280 x 2 | Media: OWC Thunderbay 4 x 2 Raid 0 mirrored with Resilio


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John Pilgrim
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 25, 2018 at 12:36:49 am

Greg wins an internet for the day for providing the most actionable piece of help so far!
Thanks!



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Trevor Asquerthian
Re: Premiere Media Start timecode issue MXF
on Oct 25, 2018 at 5:02:16 am

Report it here?:

https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro



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