FORUMS: list search recent posts

Native format or ProRes transcode for seriously mixed media short doc?

COW Forums : Adobe Premiere Pro

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Samuel Frazier
Native format or ProRes transcode for seriously mixed media short doc?
on Oct 19, 2018 at 7:57:51 pm

I’m editing a short doc of a live event that has at least 8 cameras. They & their formats given to me by the camera operators are:

Sony FS700 – 4k 24p ProRes HQ422
2 x Panasonic EVA1 – 108fps in log
1 x Panasonic EVA1 – 24p in log
2 x GoPro Hero 6 Black – 2.7k 60p in whatever its native H.264 is (not Cineform)
Panasonic GH2 – 1080p24p in H.264
Canon 7D – 1080p24 in H.265
Drone (currently unknown model) – 4k 24p in its H.264

I plan to edit on a 1080p24 timeline. I’ve gotten buried in preview times before as my docs get pretty busy w/ callout type stuff, green screens, & more.

Accordingly, I’m considering transcoding the GoPros, the GH2, the 7D, and the drone to ProRes 422 (possibly Cineform for the GoPros) to get better playback. I realize my files will be huge and I’ll need new & more storage if I do this though.

So, I’m asking for any thoughts on whether the transcoding is really necessary or will be overkill. Thanks for any help or thoughts!!



Return to posts index

Blaise Douros
Re: Native format or ProRes transcode for seriously mixed media short doc?
on Oct 19, 2018 at 9:10:30 pm

Just use Premiere's Proxy workflow. The proxy files are manageably small, and you can reconnect to the original media for your final export with one click.


Return to posts index

greg janza
Re: Native format or ProRes transcode for seriously mixed media short doc?
on Oct 19, 2018 at 9:47:12 pm

I would stick to your plan. yes, proxies will make your workflow easier but when you switch back to the 4k material your computer will come to a grinding halt. Pro res will allow you to have both a fast rough cut and fast fine cut and mastering.

And that's why converting all problematic footage to Pro res or DNxHD before you start is a great workflow overall.

Windows 10 Pro | i7-5820k CPU | 64 gigs RAM | NvidiaGeForceGTX970 | Blackmagic Decklink 4k Mini Monitor |
Adobe CC 2018 12.1.2 | Renders/cache: Samsung SSD 950 Pro x2 in Raid 0 | Media: Samsung SSD 960 PRO PCIe NVMe M.2 2280 x 2 | Media: OWC Thunderbay 4 x 2 Raid 0 mirrored with Resilio


Return to posts index


Blaise Douros
Re: Native format or ProRes transcode for seriously mixed media short doc?
on Oct 19, 2018 at 10:45:04 pm

I would note that OP's main concern is playback. It seems to me that a long final render could be fine--sounds like he wants to find a solution other than buying a bunch of new storage. I agree that ProRes simplifies matters, but I think that given OP's question (how do I get good playback without buying new storage for ProRes transcodes), the proxy workflow satisfies the requirements of the question with a minimum of cash outlay.


Return to posts index

Samuel Frazier
Re: Native format or ProRes transcode for seriously mixed media short doc?
on Oct 19, 2018 at 11:24:57 pm

Thank you for that. I should have said that my concerns were:

- getting good enough playback so the edit isn't bogged down
- hopefully not spending a lot of money on a huge storage solution. I'll do it if I have to though.
- having the correct formats in place so the footage doesn't degrade when it's time for color correction and other effects.

As for the last bit, I read many people say editing the native GoPro files would degrade pretty quickly. Some though, say it's fine. I'm not sure what to think about this.

What about making ProRes versions of the GoPro, DSLR, and drone files then making an offline from there so I'd go back to the ProRes for the online fx work and render?



Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Native format or ProRes transcode for seriously mixed media short doc?
on Oct 20, 2018 at 12:20:39 am
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Oct 20, 2018 at 12:28:53 am

I work on various shows using a wide range of camera formats. Our general rule in the shop is to re-organize clips into logical Dailies/Camera/Reel folders (not the camera-originated folders). Rename all clips from any camera (such as a DSLR) that creates generic clips names (like C0001, C0002). This is so that you have unique files names for every clip. Then generate proxies for everything and edit with the proxies. Toggle back to full-res (native files) for color correction and export. Or send XML out for a Resolve roundtrip.

Typically the only thing I will take time to transcode up front will be image sequences that have been generated by cameras like drones. I'll assemble/color correct/export these as ProResHQ using Resolve. Then the ProRes files become the "camera original" files from there on out.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Samuel Frazier
Re: Native format or ProRes transcode for seriously mixed media short doc?
on Oct 20, 2018 at 1:39:57 am

Thank you for that. I've been doing something similar w/ Prelude and an app called NameChanger to help come up w/ meaningful names for clips rather than what the cameras create them as. But, I didn't want to delete my originals b/c I don't really understand the purpose of the accompanying metafiles and thought I should leave that door open.

Glad to hear you are satisfied going back to the native formats for your online and thanks for letting me know. For what it's worth, I did my own experiment w/ some pretty extreme color correction on a native GoPro clip vs its ProRes and Cineform YUV versions. It was very slight, but if anything the native had less noise and better color reproduction than the other versions. But, this is only one filter and it would have to endure subsequent renders for various outputs.



Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Native format or ProRes transcode for seriously mixed media short doc?
on Oct 20, 2018 at 2:04:36 am

[Samuel Frazier] "But, I didn't want to delete my originals b/c I don't really understand the purpose of the accompanying metafiles and thought I should leave that door open"

Typically we keep everything. So hard drives from the shoot stay untouched, because everything is copied to shared storage. When done, that is then backed up to archive drives. So we have both the original and the organized, archived files to work with, should we need to restore the project.

I have found that the sidecar files are largely useless. The exception (recently discovered) is the GoPro 360 format. You have to use their software for the conversion and that needs certain sidecar files.

[Samuel Frazier] "It was very slight, but if anything the native had less noise and better color reproduction than the other versions."

There is some online testing you can find that points to the same results (see below). Converting to ProRes for interim files is mainly for performance. It's an extra compression step that is "visually lossless", but data is still lost in the process. Most of the various files that are H264-based are pretty crappy if you really analyze them. They don't hold up to excessive color correction and processing. Often banding becomes a real issue. So you will sometimes get slightly better results if you stay one step closer to the original.

Here's a good article related to this discussion:

https://www.provideocoalition.com/transcode-before-color-premiere

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Samuel Frazier
Re: Native format or ProRes transcode for seriously mixed media short doc?
on Oct 20, 2018 at 4:23:29 am

Thank you for that. And I'm very surprised to see that the results I found are actually legit. It was slight and in color correction heavier than I'd probably ever do tot he footage, but it happened much as that article and accompanying video displayed. Especially in the area of the video which were sky.

Again, just surprised b/c these findings are pretty contrary to the accepted rule.



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2018 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]