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3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?

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Jesse Kane
3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 16, 2018 at 10:32:00 pm

Hello all! So, about 24 years ago we shot a movie on video 8, I believe! We did that thing where we tapped off the monitor to make it look 16:9. Now, all these years later, I am editing this time capsule of a movie. I want it to be a 16:9 timeline. I am aware of cropping or putting an adjustment layer to make it appear 16:9 but of corse that takes up screen real estate, render time and gives you a square finished product with a band of image through it. IS IT possible to just change the settings of the timeline? I have tried, but I can't quite get the correct look. Anyone done this before?

My footage was imported as:
720x480
29.97


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 16, 2018 at 11:18:58 pm

Well, you CAN scale up the video, but you need to know that it will look really crummy in comparison with any HD video in the timeline.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 5:56:15 am

Hi! Thank you.
So all the footage in the timeline will be the same as mentioned above. I don't want to scale up the image, it's already pretty dodgy. What I would like to do is shrink up the height so that it is essentially 720 wide and ____ high to make it appear as a rectangle. But when I do that, it shrinks my footage down so that the square image is inside the new 720 x ______ rectangle, but it is at 100% so blowing it up to fit the left and right edges isn't an option. Im just not sure if what I want is a reality.


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 5:59:05 am

Hi! Thank you.
So all the footage in the timeline will be the same as i have listed above. I don't want to scale up the image, it's already pretty dodgy. What I would like to do is shrink up the height so that it is essentially 720 wide and ____ high to make it appear as a rectangle. But when I do that, it shrinks my footage down


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Jon Doughtie
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 2:01:24 pm

You basically have only two options - blow the footage up on a 16:9 timeline, or crop/letterbox on a 4:3 timeline.

There is a third option, but it involves distortion as well. That is a process that holds most of the image center as-is, but gradually adds stretch to the sides to fill out to a 16:9 aspect ratio. It will still introduce a "funhouse mirror" kind of look that can't be avoided. Not ture how you would do it in PPro or AE, as it is not a process I use.

System:
Dell Precision T7600 (x2)
Win 7 64-bit
32GB RAM
Adobe CC 2017.1 (as of 8/2017)
256GB SSD system drive
4 internal media drives RAID 5
Typically cutting short form from UHD MP4, HD MP4, and HD P2 MXF.


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Jeff Pulera
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 2:31:14 pm

Create NEW SEQUENCE as NTSC DV Widescreen. Drop clip into it. Scale to look correct. Whether you go interlaced or progressive will depend on source clip.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 4:01:43 pm

Thank you. I don't think that will work for me, I don't wan t to blow up the horizontal size, I just want to chop off some of the top and bottom.


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 4:03:12 pm

Thank you. That is my fear. I just wish there was a way to chop off the top and bottom without effect the left to right in any way.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 4:19:57 pm

You can still scale it up to fill up an SD 16x9 screen.

I presume you'll put the end product on DVD, correct? If true, you'll want to make your timeline 720x480... but with non-square pixels. The timeline settings will have a different pixel aspect ratio, and at the moment, the proper ratio escapes me. Sorry.

And you'll also need DVD authoring software.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 4:47:49 pm

I won't be putting this on dvd, just online. The 720x480 just gives me the same issue I am dealing with, a 4:3 image.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 5:57:29 pm

In square pixels, a 16x9 screen aspect ration would be 720x405. And you wouldn't want to change your mind about not making DVD's either. You CAN do 16x9 at 720x480, but you have to change the timeline's PIXEL aspect ratio.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 6:14:57 pm

I won't make the dvd, but I'm unclear as to the process you mentioned.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 11:21:02 pm

You have to make a custom sequence. There aren't any standard sequences for this, as far as I know.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 18, 2018 at 4:37:20 am

I understand, that is what I am here asking... HOW to make that custom sequence, what I should set it to.


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Jeff Pulera
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 4:22:38 pm

We don't know what you want to do with the footage, puts us at a disadvantage. If you want to go to DVD, then you must use 720x480, so again, making the DV Wide sequence, drop 4:3 clip in there, and scale until it fills the screen. None of the image gets cut off, but is blown up a bit (assuming source is 16:9 image letterboxed into 4:3 frame).

If making clip for digital delivery, then try a 640x360 custom sequence, with 1.0 pixel aspect - that will be a 16:9 image. Use no interlace/progressive. Then drop your clip into that sequence and adjust position and scale as necessary, but should not be blowing up the image at all thus no extra pixelization.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 4:51:05 pm

Thank you! I am only putting this online, no dvd. I have tried what you mentioned but I still end up having to engage the image. It sits into the sequence not fitting correctly yet at 100%, so to make it fit I have to enlarge it quite a bit, which makes this 20something year old video 8 footage simply fall apart. Perhaps I am missing an important step you mentioned.


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Jeff Pulera
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 6:26:35 pm

You said you had "taped the lens" when this video was recorded, so perhaps viewable area is not properly 16:9? If you have a 720x480 video (4:3) cropped to 16:9 and drop it into smaller 16:9 frame, should not need enlarging...

Can you please post a still frame from video so we can see what you are actually working with, and can also try things with on our end?

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 18, 2018 at 4:35:36 am



screenshot2018-07-17at9.28.46pm.png

Is this how to upload and image??? Crazy.

So here (I think) is the image.


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 18, 2018 at 4:41:17 am

I'm sorry, I misunderstood, here is the frame.



cocktailhoursv1copy020.jpg


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Blaise Douros
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 4:52:10 pm

You can also check out Atomic Stretch, which is a free plugin built for exactly this application:

http://atomicimagelabs.com/

I have no affiliation, just have used it once or twice. It works pretty well!


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 5:50:08 pm

Thank you, looks interesting, but I don't want to stretch the image.


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Blaise Douros
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 17, 2018 at 7:23:09 pm

Then you're stuck with setting up a 16x9 sequence, and scaling up your video to match. You'll lose the top and bottom, but that's no different than if you'd letterboxed it.


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Jeff Pulera
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 18, 2018 at 2:24:33 pm

I guess I misunderstood from the start, when you said you had taped the monitor. Some folks will put tape on their camcorder viewfinder to allow them to frame what they are shooting as widescreen and I somehow conflated that to you having a widescreen image letterboxed into the 4:3 video clip.

Now I see of course that you simply have a 4:3 video clip, period. If you put that into a widescreen sequence, you'll have black bars on sides and if you scale up to fill the screen, you lose top and bottom and degrade quality. That we've already figured out and you don't care for those options.

As you intend to put this clip online, and you want to have 16:9, here is what I would do:

Create a custom 480p widescreen sequence, as per YouTube recommendations -
  • 854 x 480 pixels
  • 29.97 fps
  • 1.0 Pixel Aspect
  • No Fields/Progressive

Drop your 4:3 clip onto that Sequence, and do not allow change of sequence settings. Use Adobe Motion to Scale Width to about 125% to fill frame (uncheck Uniform Scale first). Add Gaussian Blur and set Blurriness to about 35% or to taste. That is your new background image.

Now drop SAME clip onto V2 track directly above the blurred, stretched background. Since you have an old analog capture clip, the left and right edges may have dark lines/garbage on them which stands out against the background and adds unwanted definition to the edge. Add Crop effect and just remove a few pixels from left and right sides to clean it up.

This is a very common technique used on television these days, when using old footage in a 16:9 program, and for instance on the news when they are showing cell phone video that was shot vertically, they do this to fill out the image sides without having huge black bars. The viewers don't even notice this trick, as the eyes are focused on the subject matter in the center of the screen. As the background/edges match the actual video, it blends together and is far less noticeable that black bars. Almost invisible in practice.

The effects added to your clips can easily be copied/pasted to other clips in the sequence, so you only need to set this up once.

Photos here to show Sequence Settings and final image example. Hope this is a workable solution. And the reason for the 854x480 is because "DV" video uses rectangular pixels and for computer/online viewing we want square pixels with 1.0 aspect, and 854x480 provides the proper viewing result versus DV Widescreen which is 720x480 using 1.2 pixel aspect (pixels are wider to create illusion of widescreen, however computer video players do not take that into account and show as 4:3 basically, based on assumed 1.0 pixel aspect).

When you export from Premiere as H.264, use YouTube 480p SD Wide or similar preset that maintains same settings as sequence.





Thanks

Jeff

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Jeff Pulera
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 18, 2018 at 2:35:01 pm

Or...I'd suggested yesterday to create a 360p sequence (640x360) and drop clip into it and Voila! you are done and have actual widescreen16:9 video. You said you still had to scale quite a bit when you tried that, and that makes no sense at all, must have done something wrong. When I drop your clip into the 360p sequence, it fills the screen at 100% (no scaling added) and just a little is cut off top and bottom, and you can of course adjust the framing of image up or down a bit as desired without affecting quality.

Sequence settings and finished example below, quite quick and easy!





Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 18, 2018 at 7:46:40 pm

Oh man! Really!? I will try that shortly! Thank you so much in advance!


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 18, 2018 at 7:42:29 pm

I appreciate the effort, but I do not with to have the left and right have that blurred effect. I am quite familiar with it. I worked on 20/20 and GMA, we did it often. I really just want to have a finished product with the top and bottom trimmed without taking anything or adding anything or expanding the sides. I simply want to mask the top and bottom.


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Jeff Pulera
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 18, 2018 at 7:51:36 pm

The 640x360 sequence seems the ideal solution, does that not work for some reason? Seems to fulfill your request nicely

Thanks

Jeff

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 18, 2018 at 8:09:01 pm

Sorry! These treads get confusing! So I tried this and it WORKED! It’s exaclty what I wanted. You saved me. Thank you so much!


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Jan Janowski
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 18, 2018 at 2:58:16 pm

Do it all the time.
I set session for 16x9, and put a layer of 16x9 video on layer 1,
Then put 4x3 video as layer 2, cropping if it’s real wide blanking.

This way. You don’t have to find a 4x3 display.


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Jesse Kane
Re: 3:4 aspect ratio to 16:9?
on Jul 18, 2018 at 8:27:21 pm

Thank you.


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