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Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere

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Matt Hannon
Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 17, 2018 at 5:22:00 am

Hey everyone,

I am in need of bit of help if that's ok, I have a deadline approaching in 2 days and although I have finished the work and exported the file from Premiere Pro (CC 2018), when I upload it to Vimeo, the colours wash out completely as if I never applied any colour grading to the footage.

I've heard of issues where Quicktime Pro misreads the colour information in the exported source file (as well as when you watch the video via pressing spacebar in Finder on your Mac), but i've been a member of Vimeo for a long time and have never noticed such a huge colour shift as this.

My footage looks as it should in premiere, and if I play the exported file (h.264 compression) in VLC afterwards, it still looks fine. There is no problem with VLC.

However, if I press spacebar in finder to preview the video or watch it in quicktime it looks terrible, and the result is exactly the same once the video is uploaded to Vimeo; ie. unuseable?!

Here is the comparison between what I see in Premiere (above) and what I see in Finder/Quicktime and Vimeo (below)



What the hell is going on? How come VLC plays it beautifully and shows the colour graded image?

I am working on a brand new 5k iMac with upgraded RAM, I've exported hundreds of videos in exactly the same way on previous machines and never had a problem. It is a brand new iMac, maybe there's something in my settings on the new machine, or it something in the settings of the new version of Premiere Pro that need to be changed?

I also read somewhere that Vimeo doesn't offer full colour display to 8-bit footage or something like that, how can that be true? i'm also guessing that it's not vimeo's fault, otherwise why does QT and Finder display the incorrect version...

PLEASE HELP!

Many thanks in advance..


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Matt Hannon
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 17, 2018 at 5:28:39 am

Also another thing:

When I preview the file in Media Encoder via Dynamic Link, the image is also bad.

It seems the only software that will display the image as it looks in premiere is VLC...?!

Thank you

The Road to Patagonia - A two year surfing odyssey - from the top of the world to the bottom


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Oliver Peters
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 17, 2018 at 1:58:30 pm

Unfortunately this is all normal. Different player apps and modules will look different with the same media. Especially Quicktime Player. Your only consistent image will (should) be to an external display using hardware video i/o. Of course, this doesn't account for how it will look on the web. Do you see the same issues on Vimeo when you view it on different machines, tables, Macs versus PCs, phones, etc?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Chris Wright
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 17, 2018 at 2:28:29 pm

even the browser google chrome shifts my white point. try different browsers. also, try legal range 16-235 or my correction lut I made for youtube/vimeo(export as lut in final ame)
https://f1.creativecow.net/10598/fixmyyoutube


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Matt Hannon
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 18, 2018 at 4:54:36 am

thanks Chris - i'll check it out.

The Road to Patagonia - A two year surfing odyssey - from the top of the world to the bottom


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Matt Hannon
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 18, 2018 at 4:53:40 am

Thanks for the input Oliver.

I know that an external monitor with a video card would be the best solution, but its just not a practical (or desirable) solution for me - I'd just send my work to a grader before doing that. But for this little project I just wanted to keep things simple, keep the grade to Lumetri only, and in reality this should be achievable without a ext monitor.

Yes the different browsers display things differently, I just checked it out on firefox and it actually oversaturates the image on vimeo with high levels of magenta, which just makes everything more complicated to fix i guess.

I know you cant make it perfect for every device, browser, app etc... I am not hoping to do this. I've just never seen a colour shift so dramatically from Premiere to Vimeo before...

The Road to Patagonia - A two year surfing odyssey - from the top of the world to the bottom


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John Pale
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 17, 2018 at 11:43:06 pm

Are you using the Vimeo presets in Adobe Mefia encoder or setting manually yourself?


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Matt Hannon
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 18, 2018 at 4:55:49 am

manually setting everything, and have tried all the different bit-rate/compression combos...

The Road to Patagonia - A two year surfing odyssey - from the top of the world to the bottom


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Christian Schumacher
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 18, 2018 at 3:06:22 am

[Matt Hannon] "I am working on a brand new 5k iMac with upgraded RAM, I've exported hundreds of videos in exactly the same way on previous machines and never had a problem. It is a brand new iMac, maybe there's something in my settings on the new machine, or it something in the settings of the new version of Premiere Pro that need to be changed?"

Matt, new iMacs have P3 displays so if you have After Effects [which can be set to display more common color spaces like sRGB] you can paste or import clips from Premiere and then see how to proper match those outputs. Premiere Pro Creative Cloud does not have this ability, unfortunately. You'd have to compensate for this. [or color correct directly in After Effects] Another reference:

https://forums.adobe.com/message/9255446#9255446


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Paul Neumann
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 18, 2018 at 3:13:42 am

I master to Cineform 10-bit and upload that to Vimeo. No problems. Even Vimeo's mp4s look good when the source is good. Vimeo takes Cineform and DNxHD/HR as well as Pro Res. You should take advantage of that.


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Matt Hannon
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 18, 2018 at 4:48:23 am

Hey Christian,

Thanks mate, I discovered that thread after I wrote this one on Creative Cow - weirdly, it seems that no one had any solutions as far as I could see.

I did play around with my display settings on the iMac, and if you watch closely it will fix the misreading of colour in Premiere Pro for about 1 second, which after that Premiere will compensate for the display shift and adjust the colour to of the footage back to the same problematic over-saturated look (which when rendered out, looks flat and ungraded on almost everything else except VLC)..

So I guess I cant grade inside of premiere on Lumetri for now. I'll give it a try in AE I suppose...

The Road to Patagonia - A two year surfing odyssey - from the top of the world to the bottom


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Matt Hannon
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 18, 2018 at 5:08:29 am

Thanks to everyone for chipping in with advice.

I have had a lucky turn in project which although now means I am going to drop a bit more work into it, it also gives me a bit more time to get the colour issue sorted.

From what I can tell (and I do not claim to be a colour expert by any means), is like Christian mentioned in an earlier post, the new iMac are using a wide gammut colour profile known as P3, and premiere does not have this colour system/profile. It seems premiere overcompensates for the wide gammut and oversaturates the footage - it also seems that VLC might read the tags on the exported footage in the same way as premiere and displays it similarly.

I tried to change the display profile on the iMac, with major shifts of colour in the footage inside premiere along with the Premiere windows themselves (black backgrounds etc) - this is to be expected. What I didnt expect was for Premiere to automatically compensate for the display change after 1 second, and revert the footage to look exactly how it was before the change. If that makes sense..

Either way, i'm confused. Maybe I shouldn't bother with Lumetri, it feels pretty limited anyway, but I loved the idea of being able to turn around the whole project inside premiere. It seems like premiere is falling behind without the ability to manage colour systems. In FCP you can apparently.

Another interesting result was that the firefox version of my vimeo video looked much closer to the graded images inside premiere (not perfect with much higher magenta, but at least closer), which makes me think it's all a bit pointless anyway.. ha..

Either way, i've completed plenty of projects in the past and never experienced an issue like this with vimeo/premiere/mac...

Thanks again

The Road to Patagonia - A two year surfing odyssey - from the top of the world to the bottom


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greg janza
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 18, 2018 at 5:12:56 am

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is if you've fully calibrated your computer monitor/s.

If a professional monitor and i/o card such as a Blackmagic decklink isn't in your budget you should at least pick up a calibration device like the x-rite x1 pro or a spyder and use the open source DisplayCAL to calibrate. Without calibrating your monitor you really can't troubleshoot any color issues.

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Matt Hannon
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 18, 2018 at 6:59:25 am

Its got nothing to do with monitor calibration - everything is being viewed on the same monitor.

The Road to Patagonia - A two year surfing odyssey - from the top of the world to the bottom


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 18, 2018 at 8:25:03 am

It ain't the answer you want but it doesn't make it wrong.


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Matt Hannon
Re: Unacceptable Gamma shift when uploading to Vimeo from Permiere
on Apr 19, 2018 at 5:44:44 am

happy to consider all options Tero, and i'm the first to admit i'm not a colorist.

Would you mind explaining to me how the calibration of my one screen is affecting all the different players/browsers/apps being viewed on it?

It seems to me that if it was just a callibration issue, then I wouldn't be experiencing the variations across the different platforms.


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