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H264 Color space exports

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Dan Powers
H264 Color space exports
on Feb 1, 2018 at 6:25:39 pm

Steps to recreate. Love to hear of your results.

Export H264 preset from the pulldown and match source, CBR 18Mbps from the sequence using Media Encoder.

Open in Quicktime 7, Color is muted. (Sat down about 25% and about a 5% gamma shift toward green)
Open in Quicktime 10, color is muted. (same as above)
Open in VLC, color correct.
Import H264 back into project. Looks pretty close to original slight gamma shift.
Upload H264 to vimeo and color is muted just like in the QT playbacks.

What is happening here?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: H264 Color space exports
on Feb 1, 2018 at 6:32:38 pm

[Dan Powers] "Upload H264 to vimeo and color is muted just like in the QT playbacks."

Well, why don't you just use the AME preset for Vimeo if that's your destination?

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Shane Ross
Re: H264 Color space exports
on Feb 1, 2018 at 6:32:53 pm

QT tends to adjust the colors for some reason. QT 7 had a setting to "match FCP 7 color" or something like that. But no, it's not accurate...nor is QTX. They adjust the image.

As for Vimeo...watch the same video on Vimeo on Chrome, and Safari, and Firefox...you'll note that even with those players...the same video will look different. Because of their inner workings and how it plays back. We in TV land have the same issues. How COX compresses it for delivery differs from how Spectrum does, and how Comcast does. So what I see in LA will look different in NY. And then my TV looks different than my producers TV and my parents TV.

These are all external things that we cannot control. The only thing we can control is how we view the image we are correcting...making sure it's on a color calibrated monitor and that on that, It looks right and good. Anything that happens after that...out of our hands.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Dan Powers
Re: H264 Color space exports
on Feb 1, 2018 at 6:52:29 pm

Dave, trying a Vimeo preset under H264 to see what happens. Not sure what AME is. Another Media Encoder?

Still doesnt say what the heck is happening with video players interpreting the color space wrong. QT should handle it fine and it should look correct on at least the same machine. If VLC can do it, why cant Apple QT player?
And why is Vimeo mimicking what Apple is doing... makes me think there is some odd color space flag that is imbedded in the export and VLC is ignoring it...
Will know about the Vimeo export in a couple of minutes.

Shane I just compared Chrome and Safari and they look about the same.
I hear ya on the broadcast.
The old story comes to mind about the client watching tv at his grandmothers house and his commercial came on. Five seconds later he is on the phone, screaming at his colorist.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: H264 Color space exports
on Feb 1, 2018 at 7:11:30 pm

[Dan Powers] " Not sure what AME is. Another Media Encoder?"

That would be Adobe Media Encoder, and it is a very valuable arrow to have in your quiver. I recommend you get to know it.

For one thing, it's one of the rare Adobe products that works as advertised!

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Dan Powers
Re: H264 Color space exports
on Feb 2, 2018 at 5:09:54 pm

Ahh, yes I use that. But isnt the encoding engine the same as when launched from inside premiere for export? I am not expecting different color results but I am trying anyway.


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Dan Powers
Re: H264 Color space exports
on Feb 1, 2018 at 6:54:40 pm

Vimeo preset uploaded. Still has muted color. Will try another media encoder after exporting out to Pro res.


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Ann Bens
Re: H264 Color space exports
on Feb 1, 2018 at 7:12:32 pm
Last Edited By Ann Bens on Feb 1, 2018 at 7:13:50 pm

QT player has a known gamma shift issue. Use VLC instead.

-----------------------------------------------
Adobe Certified Expert Premiere Pro CS2/CS6/CC
Adobe Community Professional


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greg janza
Re: H264 Color space exports
on Feb 1, 2018 at 8:42:31 pm

I also would advocate abandoning Quicktime. There's plenty of other playback options- VLC, Switch, PotPlayer, etc, etc.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Bouke Vahl
Re: H264 Color space exports
on Feb 2, 2018 at 9:42:24 am

VLC on Windows has a wrong black level by default, you have to correct it yourself in the settings.
(And I forgot where, sorry...)

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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Chris Wright
Re: H264 Color space exports
on Feb 2, 2018 at 1:44:42 pm

VLC tools-prefs, video output set to openGL will match openGL drivers from premiere.


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Chris Wright
Re: H264 Color space exports
on Feb 2, 2018 at 1:51:38 am

vimeo is 16-235 and youtube is 0-255. not confusing at all...


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Dan Powers
Re: H264 Color space exports
on Feb 2, 2018 at 5:40:29 pm

Tests done and conclusion reached.
As Shane said, it is out of our control.
After reading Vimeo's advice to download your converted file and check it against the original, I saw that when opening it with VLC it looks like the original.
They state that all web browsers across the different platforms have different colorspace decoding and seldom will you get accurate results.
As a test I used Chrome and Safari to just open the mp4 direct. And of course the color space is wrong. Case closed. Web browsers suck for video. Have not tested with IOS or Android since the screens are also set to varying degrees of color and luminance enhancement.
Results were the same whether encoded straight h264 or vimeo preset whether inside Premiere Pro or Adobe Media Encoder. Did not test any encoder from any other party. Probably should.

Also what Greg said about abandoning QT player is sound advice. It will not playback with the original colorspace of the source file.


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