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I Have 3 Pegasus Raid Drives and They Are All Getting Full

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Lauren Kaiser
I Have 3 Pegasus Raid Drives and They Are All Getting Full
on Dec 20, 2017 at 8:45:48 pm

I could really use some advice and words of wisdom. Just a little background, I have stepped into a new job and therefore I have inherited the equipment and set up of the person before me, so I am trying to figure it out. I am very new to Raid, and admittedly only have a very basic understanding of it. Out of necessity, I need to do something.

Here's my situation: I have two Pegasus R4s and one Pegasus 2 R4...They are all getting full. I primarily deal with video and therefore burn through space pretty quickly, and I need to hold onto footage for quite some time. I've researched, but I've become overwhelmed and confused.

Is it possible to "simply" take out the hard drives and replace them with either new hard rives of the same size or possibly larger ones, and just hang on to the current hard drives in case I ever needed something currently stored on them? My other question, which will probably further illustrate my lack of understanding of raid drives and I'm not sure if this is even a coherent question so forgive me...if I look to replace the hard drives currently in my raid array, do the hard drives correspond to a certain raid level? Or is that somehow configured after the fact?

Essentially, how can I add more space to what I currently have? I do not need constant access to what is currently on the drives, but I can't lose the information on them.

Thank you in advance.


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Bob Zelin
Re: I Have 3 Pegasus Raid Drives and They Are All Getting Full
on Dec 20, 2017 at 10:58:29 pm

Hi Lauren -
ever go shopping ? Ever buy shoes, and more shoes and more shoes ? You have 2 choices - (3 choices) -
1) throw out your old shoes (delete your old files) - (but I can't do that - I LOVE those shoes)
2) get a bigger closet to hold more shoes (I can't afford a bigger closet)
3) stop buying new shoes.

SO - you have 3 small RAID arrays, and you keep shooting and you keep getting more and more footage. Welcome to the club. This is EVERY PERSON on this forum (and all these forums). You can either DELETE your old footage, and if you can't because it's valuable footage, then you need to buy ANOTHER RAID ARRAY, because you are out of space.

When will this end ? NEVER. Until internet cloud upload speeds are up to par (both you and I will be dead by the time this happens), you will ALWAYS need to buy new and larger RAID arrays, particularly as we continue to work in 4K, 6K and 8K. And when your company decides to shoot in the non existant "12 K and 16K" in the future - when the bosses say "what do you mean you need more drive space, we just bought more drives 5 years ago at your suggestion" - you have them call me, and I will tell them what idiots they are, and they have no concept of what it takes to be in this business.

You need more space. Can you buy larger drives (10TB and 12TB) and reraid your system - sure, but you will lose the media that you currently own. You need a new LARGE (probably VERY large) RAID array from Promise, G-Tech, or some company making thunderbolt RAIDs that is compatible with your system. Ultimately you will want a large shared storage network attached storage system, so that all your computers will be able to share media. But this, too, will ultimately run out of space, which is why you ALWAYS choose a NAS system that you can expand with.

Bottom line - your company needs to budget in for a new larger RAID array.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Eric Santiago
Re: I Have 3 Pegasus Raid Drives and They Are All Getting Full
on Dec 21, 2017 at 1:05:17 pm

I'm curious about best practices when in it comes to OFFLINING RAID sets.
On my end, I had to be careful since my OWCs used specific software and can not be used in another RAID box.
However, I got lucky with a set started in a USB3 box then moved into a Pegasus R4.
Of course, this was all easy on the MAC side and nowhere close to the hell I had to endure on Windows.
Learned my lesson with RAID switching with an HP Z840 internally and externally (OWC) :P
My tips so far are label the RAID drives in full detail.
Any others I should add to my workflow?


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Rainer Wirth
Re: I Have 3 Pegasus Raid Drives and They Are All Getting Full
on Dec 21, 2017 at 2:53:04 pm

Hi Lauren,

I would go for this plan:
You have one Raid system, which holds your current projects. It must be big enough to allow up to let's say 5-10 projects, each around 3TB space. This means you need 30 TB raid capacity.
Once a project is finished you store it to a normal Harddrive. You have to keep record whats on your Harddrive and you have to label your harddrive.
A second harddrive with the same information is stored on a different place (in case of fire, or failure).
So you have a double backup of your data.
After double backup, you delete the project from the working raid.
This is how we do it. It is expensive and time consuming, but effective.
We haven't lost any data within 20 years. Our current Raid system is over 120TB and we throw data of 50TB per year onto HD's. Shooting on 4k means a huge responsibility to data.

I hope this helps,

cheers

Rainer

factstory
Rainer Wirth
phone_0049-177-2156086
Mac pro 8core
Adobe,FCP,Avid
several raid systems


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Lauren Kaiser
Re: I Have 3 Pegasus Raid Drives and They Are All Getting Full
on Dec 21, 2017 at 9:17:57 pm

Thank you Rainer! I had thought about a variation of this, but I do have one concern, but perhaps you might be able to speak to it. The issue (I think) for me would be relocating projects. Most of my work is done in premiere and if I relocate the premiere project and then later need to open it to reedit something, premiere won't be able to find any of the original media, video clips, audio etc. because it will be looking for the original path where it was located and having to relink all of the files would be an impossible task.

A little more background info may be helpful. The arrays I have now are 12TB each with 9TB of usable storage with the configuration. I work for a university, so while I have many projects, most of them are relatively small in size. Filming a class, presentations, guest speakers, things of that sort. So no one thing is terribly large.


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Lauren Kaiser
Re: I Have 3 Pegasus Raid Drives and They Are All Getting Full
on Dec 21, 2017 at 9:01:35 pm

Thank you Bob, what a great analogy! If only RAID shopping was as easy as shoe shopping.

Just to make sure I understand one of your points correctly... you said I could buy larger drives and reraid my system, but that I will lose the media I currently own. Does that mean that if I take the current drives out, I can't retrieve the data off of them by putting them back in if I desperately needed to? I understand that is not an ideal situation, but is it possible?


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Rainer Wirth
Re: I Have 3 Pegasus Raid Drives and They Are All Getting Full
on Dec 22, 2017 at 12:46:04 am

Hi Lauren,

if you have exactly the same Raid systems lets say Pegasus 4bay, you can use the HD's as back up.
Each HD must be labeled with the slot number it was used before.
If you refer to a different project you need to put the HD's in exact the same slot number in your Raid system.
You have to swop the drives before you switch it on.
So labelling is very important.
We've done this for some time as a back-up, but it was too expensive (in our case).
You have to meet the HD specs of your Raid system. In our case this meant Ultrastars enterprise class Hd's.
With 50 TB a year of expensive HD's it was more expensive than double bach up on Deskstars.
You can do it, but you must be very precise in what you do.
When Promise change the Raid systems yo must be able to label the system and provide an enclosure for the old system.

cheers

Rainer

factstory
Rainer Wirth
phone_0049-177-2156086
Mac pro 8core
Adobe,FCP,Avid
several raid systems


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Eric Santiago
Re: I Have 3 Pegasus Raid Drives and They Are All Getting Full
on Dec 22, 2017 at 3:34:14 pm

I would like to add that all this "drive replacing" with RAID sets does work but from experience not as smooth on the Windows side of things.


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Bob Zelin
Re: I Have 3 Pegasus Raid Drives and They Are All Getting Full
on Dec 23, 2017 at 3:24:07 pm

Hi Lauren -
I really don't like any of the examples that are being given to you. To work in an industry, you can't work with zero budget. If you are an UBER driver, and your tires are getting thin, you either BUY NEW TIRES, or you can't work as an UBER driver. The idea of popping out one drive at a time, and spending forever trying to rebuilt the array is ridiculous, because - don't you have to WORK, and edit your show ? You ran out of room - buy more storage. It's that simple. I assume that this is not a student project, and even if it is - most students are supported by their parents, so instead of having them pay for your car and housing, have them buy you a new RAID array.

There are SO MANY POSTS of "how can I do this with ZERO money" - you can't. It's an absolute miracle that things like Davinci Resolve are free, but hardware is not free. Things are cheaper than ever IN HISTORY. But no matter how cheap things get, people always say "isn't there a cheaper way".

You don't save anything when avoiding buying a new enclosure with your new drives. Because if something goes wrong, and you lose your media - YOU ARE SCREWED, and your employer will never hire you again. Just like if you got a flat tire on the highway, because you could not afford to get new tires for your UBER car. If you can't afford the equipment, you should go to work for another company. It costs money to be in business, and hopefully, you have enough work to cover your business expenses (they are 100% tax writeoff's off your billing).

Buy the correct RAID array, with the space you need, go back to work, make money, and stop dwelling on these work arounds.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Rainer Wirth
Re: I Have 3 Pegasus Raid Drives and They Are All Getting Full
on Dec 23, 2017 at 11:05:21 pm

Bob is right,

you need an array with more space.
It is also the most cost effective way.
I've never regretted to most expensive solutions.

cheers

Rainer

factstory
Rainer Wirth
phone_0049-177-2156086
Mac pro 8core
Adobe,FCP,Avid
several raid systems


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Lauren Kaiser
Re: I Have 3 Pegasus Raid Drives and They Are All Getting Full
on Jan 2, 2018 at 2:51:26 pm

Thank you Bob and Rainer!

The money isn't necessarily a problem, and I do apologize if I made it sound like I am looking for a work around to avoid cost, that is not the case. I was really just seeking information and a better understanding of how these things work, which you both provided so thank you again! I've just been needing to figure out the best way to acquire more space, and your shoe analogy helped with that. I need to talk to my boss and see if we're going to hang on to the old shoes and buy a bigger closet, or if we can say goodbye to the old to make room for the new. I'm new to my role and my company and just didn't want to haphazardly suggest we spend a large sum of money (even if it's reasonable) on something without understanding if and why that's the best solution.

Thank you again!
-Lauren-


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