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Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing

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Ray Sherman
Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Feb 24, 2015 at 7:08:51 pm
Last Edited By Ray Sherman on Feb 24, 2015 at 7:12:35 pm

I am about to purchase a iMac 5k (Late 2014) for video editing configured as;

Hardware:
4.0GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 4.4GHz
32GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 4x8GB
1TB Flash Drive (SSD)
AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4GB GDDR5
Apple Magic Mouse
Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) & User's Guide

Storage:
PROMISE Pegasus2 R4 8TB (4 by 2TB) Thunderbolt 2 RAID System
http://store.apple.com/us/product/HE...r4-8tb-4-by-2t...

Software:
Final Cut Pro X
Motion 5
Compressor
Pages, Numbers, Keynote
iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand
OS X

I need some instruction on how to setup/configure RAID 0 or RAID 5 for video editing. I'm coming from a PC with Windows 7, Vegas Pro. I'm using two internal hard drives (2TB each) in RAID 0. These drives are used as follows;

Internal Hard Drive 1: Raw un-edited pre-rendered video, pictures and music (2x750GB Raid 0) Samsung HD753LJ 750GB SATA2 7200rpm 32MB

Internal Hard Drive 2: Rendered events for final output. (2x750GB Raid 0) Samsung HD753LJ 750GB SATA2 7200rpm 32MB

I do my current PC editing on the computers OS drive. I really don't know if this setup is proper. I want to set up the new iMac 5K in the most optimal way, therefore I need help on how to do so. Are there any instructional tutorials and/or videos out there that will work me through a setup process from start to finish? Thanks


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Rainer Wirth
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Feb 24, 2015 at 7:36:32 pm

Hi Ray,

I would go with Raid5 never use Raid0.
The better solution would be a R6 with 3TB Hdds and raid level 6.

cheers

Rainer

factstory
Rainer Wirth
phone_0049-177-2156086
Mac pro 8core
Adobe,FCP,Avid
several raid systems


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Feb 24, 2015 at 8:00:09 pm

Don't sweat it, ALL Promise T-bolt RAID enclosures come preconfigured as RAID 5.

FYI, you still need to backup EVERYTHING, as no kind of RAID protection will keep you covered completely.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Ray Sherman
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Feb 24, 2015 at 10:25:06 pm

[Ray Sherman] "Internal Hard Drive 1: Raw un-edited pre-rendered video, pictures and music (2x750GB Raid 0) Samsung HD753LJ 750GB SATA2 7200rpm 32MB

Internal Hard Drive 2: Rendered events for final output. (2x750GB Raid 0) Samsung HD753LJ 750GB SATA2 7200rpm 32MB"


Thanks for the help..... Running in RAID 0 has it's good and bad points. The good... It suppose to be the fastest with the bad being if you crash you're definately burned. I have always backed up to other external drives because of this. On the other hand, I'm learning from folks like you that RAID 5 may be a better way to go. It may be a little slower, but it's definately safer. Would you go with the same setup I was using on my PC, but in RAID 5? As I stated in my post, I have always did my editing on my OS drive. Is this how it's suppose to be done? I have always believed that it had to be done on the OS drive simply due to that's where the NLE software is located. I can't thank you enough for all your help, I sincerely appreciate it. THANK YOU!...Ray


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Rainer Wirth
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Feb 25, 2015 at 3:46:56 pm

Hi Ray,

you are with a thunderbolt connection, so you Raid is your fastest option. I would edit on the Raid.
And believe me, Raid 5 is the minimum redundancy you need. You won't realize the little bit of slower speed when you're working. Raid 5 slows the Raid just a tiny bit. We all tend to go for Raid 6, because of experience! The more safety you can afford, the better it is. Raid 0 is no option!
A Raid is just there working working working, you don't have to think about it, it's just there. (a Quote from Walter Biscardi)
To my knowledge a 4bay Raid can't be operated on Raid6, therefore I recommend the pegasus 6.

Cheers

Rainer

factstory
Rainer Wirth
phone_0049-177-2156086
Mac pro 8core
Adobe,FCP,Avid
several raid systems


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Ray Sherman
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Feb 26, 2015 at 2:37:33 am
Last Edited By Ray Sherman on Feb 26, 2015 at 2:42:02 am

Thanks for the info. and advice...... I know the pegasus2 R4 is sent with RAID 5, but I will look deeper into the Pegasus2 R6 as well. These Pegasus2 drives are a little pricy, but are suppose to be one of the best. I want my iMac to run as smooth as possible. Thanks again, Ray


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Feb 26, 2015 at 3:45:25 am

So long as you backup everything RAID 5 will be just fine - while RAID 6 is more secure, it comes at the cost, i.e. two drives worth of storage space lost to the protection scheme - that would be half your 4-drive array and 1/3 if a 6-drive array.

FYI, neither RAID 5 nor 6 has a performance hit on reads, both do writes, with RAID 6 substantially slower on writes.

Also, though RAID 6 is substantially more secure, since no form of RAID protection provides enough security to avoid backups, RAID 5 is the industry standard for most until you get into 16-drive arrays and beyond.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Ray Sherman
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 3, 2015 at 2:51:54 pm

Thanks for all your help....
I do want a smooth 1080 and 4K editing experience without any lagging and/or time consuming issues. My editing events are anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour on the timeline. I do like using some effects, transitions, chroma keying, pictures and music therefore I do use multiple timelines. Rendering times are not important to me, I usually do so overnight.
Planned software to be used;
Apple FCP X
Apple Motion 5
Apple Comperssor
Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5

I’m not shooting in Raw and/or RED. My following equipment only consists of;
Sony XDCAM PXW-X70 w/ XAVC L(GOP), AVCHD with 4K update on the way.
Canon EOS 7D
GoPro Hero 2

With that being said, I have a few more questions if I may;
It appears that RAID 5 would suit my needs. In your opinion, what would be the best configuration with either the Pegasus R4 8TB (4x2TB) or Pegasus R6 12TB (6x2TB)?
I do feel that it's important not to place un-edited and/or rendered media on the OS drive. Would you partition off the drives as I did with my former PC workstation as follows?
OS 1TB: software, etc.
Hard Drive 1 (2x750GB Raid 0): Un-edited pre-rendered video, pictures and music
Hard Drive 2 (2x750GB Raid 0): Rendered events for final output to DVD, etc.

I do realize that I would need to backup my media on another external drive that is separate from my workstation for safe storage. Maybe, I could partition my storage if I went with the R6….. The aforementioned are things I have in question, simply due to being oblivious for the best workflow (LOL…..). I sincerely appreciate everyones help here at CreativeCow. Thanks again, Ray


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 3, 2015 at 5:12:07 pm
Last Edited By David Roth Weiss on Mar 3, 2015 at 5:20:00 pm

[Ray Sherman] "I do feel that it's important not to place un-edited and/or rendered media on the OS drive. Would you partition off the drives as I did with my former PC workstation as follows?
OS 1TB: software, etc.
Hard Drive 1 (2x750GB Raid 0): Un-edited pre-rendered video, pictures and music
Hard Drive 2 (2x750GB Raid 0): Rendered events for final output to DVD, etc. "


You are overthinking Ray. As I previously mentioned, the Pegasus hard drive arrays come preconfigured as RAID 5, so just plug it in and edit, and DO NOT PARTITION as you did your previous setup, that would defeat much the purpose of purchasing a large multi-drive array. Remember, every time you double the number of disks in a RAID array you virtually double the throughput of that array - and, that's the primary advantage of what you're paying for. Accordingly, if you want to play 4K seamlessly, you should be purchasing an 8-drive Pegasus, not a 4 or 6-drive model.

Also, in the overthinking category, just consider your RAID to be your "media drive," - stop all thoughts about this file type her and that file type there, the RAID is fast enough to deal with everything, video, renders, audio, etc. You can use an SSD cache drive for increased performance, but my understanding is that cache drives really only improve performance of AE, not so much in Premiere.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Ray Sherman
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 3, 2015 at 6:47:28 pm
Last Edited By Ray Sherman on Mar 3, 2015 at 6:50:37 pm

Hi David,
First, I thank you for all your help. Overthinking.... You couldn't be more right. I believe I have a much better understanding how a RAID configuration works.
Let's see if I do (LOL)....
RAID 5 requires a minimum of three drives, therefore with the Pegasus R4 8TB (4x2TB) the Read/Write speeds would be slightly faster than the minimum three drives.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.... With the Pegasus R6 12TB (6x2TB) it would be double the minimum needed for RAID 5 therefore, I think this may be all I need. Plus, I believe I would gain much more speed as well. With that being said, I do realize that it would be smart to backup my media on another external drive that is separate from my workstation for safe storage. If I'm correct... Hooray!! If not, please straighten me out, I can take it..... Thanks for taking the time in helping me out. I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate it. Ray


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 3, 2015 at 8:52:39 pm

[Ray Sherman] "RAID 5 requires a minimum of three drives"

True, but it makes little sense in a config under 4 drives, especially if you backup everything.

[Ray Sherman] "With the Pegasus R6 12TB (6x2TB) it would be double the minimum needed for RAID 5 therefore, I think this may be all I need."

If seamless playback of 4K and larger files is important to you, you should not be as concerned with overall capacity as you should about the overall throughput of the hard drive subsystem - if you are going to skimp anywhere, do so on drive size, not the number of drives. Trust me, buying an 8-drive array now will be a much better investment for you - a four or six drive enclosure will not have the overhead you'll need longterm for 4K and beyond, and you'll have to buy a new enclosure all too soon. Never buy what's just good enough for today, if spending a little bit more gets you three to five more years of useful life, and bit chin performance now, you will be much happier both short and long term.

[Ray Sherman] " do realize that it would be smart to backup my media on another external drive that is separate from my workstation for safe storage."

Not just smart, but imperative.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Ray Sherman
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 3, 2015 at 9:30:52 pm
Last Edited By Ray Sherman on Mar 3, 2015 at 10:15:05 pm

Hi David,
Thanks again for all your help.... I looked at the Promise Pegasus2 R8 24TB (8 x 3TB SATA) RAID System with Thunderbolt 2. That's 24TB of RAID.....Wow! Pegasus does not offer less than 3TB drives in their R8 series. With drive size not mattering, 24TB seems like an overkill. On the flip side, Write/Read speeds would be much greater than the R6 12TB. I can also see the advantage of the space for multible timeline editing along with adding effects, chroma keying, etc. Having more than I need is definately smart while future proofing as well. It's just a matter if this is way beyond what I'll ever need. Like you stated earlier, use the Pegasus as one whole drive therefore I would still need other external drives for backups. I'm not bent on the Pegasus, but they are suppose to be the best thing out there. Do you have any other suggestions for great drives?
Thanks again.... Ray


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Rainer Wirth
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 5, 2015 at 11:05:48 am

Hi folks,

David is right - no need to partition, you can go with Raid 6 on the 8bay Raid and consider - if you work on 4k even a small project is mostly above 1TB. If you have about 10 projects, the Raid is full.
Don't do any Raid0 stuff - this is for amateurs or high end people!

cheers

Rainer

factstory
Rainer Wirth
phone_0049-177-2156086
Mac pro 8core
Adobe,FCP,Avid
several raid systems


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Ray Sherman
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 6, 2015 at 12:52:28 pm
Last Edited By Ray Sherman on Mar 6, 2015 at 2:02:04 pm

Thanks for the help...... As I stated earlier;

With drive size not mattering, 24TB seems like an overkill. On the flip side, Write/Read speeds would be much greater than the R6 12TB. I can also see the advantage of the space for multible timeline editing along with adding effects, chroma keying, etc.

I'm wondering how much of a difference there is in speed between the R6 12TB (6x2TB) and the R8 in RAID 5?
It takes a minimum of 3 drives for RAID 5 therefore, R6 would be double the speed. With the R8 24TB (8x3TB) being double in speed with two more drives above the R6. Dave stated that drive size doesn't matter. With that being said, having the extra two drives is a $1100.00 more than the R6. If Read/Write speeds are not much better, I'd rather stick that money into a seperate storage drive. Please letm me know your thoughts and opinions. Thanks, Ray


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Ray Sherman
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 11, 2015 at 1:19:58 pm
Last Edited By Ray Sherman on Mar 11, 2015 at 1:22:21 pm

Please, any thoughts on my last reply? Thanks, Ray


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Tyler Chittick
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 13, 2015 at 9:45:12 pm

We haven't seen substantial increases in read speeds moving from 6- to 8-drive arrays, mostly because of the theoretical limits of Thunderbolt. If you think you'll be good with the storage space of the 6-drive enclosure, go for that one. Save yourself the money and put some of that money toward a spare drive. You'll need it, eventually.

--
Tyler Chittick
Integration & Technical Support
Maxx Digital
http://www.maxxdigital.com
tyler@maxxdigital.com
714-374-4944


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Ray Sherman
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 14, 2015 at 1:03:09 am

Thanks for the reply..... appreciate the help. Ray


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Rainer Wirth
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 15, 2015 at 1:01:52 pm

I stick with Tyler,

6 or 8bay - for editing the read speed is mor crucial than the write speed.
You are getting the most out of thunderbolt with both arrays.
The 8bay just gives you more space.

cheers

Rainer

factstory
Rainer Wirth
phone_0049-177-2156086
Mac pro 8core
Adobe,FCP,Avid
several raid systems


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Ray Sherman
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 15, 2015 at 1:34:14 pm
Last Edited By Ray Sherman on Mar 15, 2015 at 1:37:12 pm

Thanks for the reply... I'm leaning towards the R8 (8x 3TB) 24TB for both speed and headroom since I plan on editing 4K media. RAID 5 seems to be the most logical RAID for what my needs are. At times, I know I'll be using up to four or five timelines due to using effects, chroma keying, transitions, music, etc. With that being said, I may need the space of the larger drives. What I need to find out is how much 4K media the R6 and R8 can ingest. I don't want to push the limit, but I also don't need a huge overkill. I'd like to add, I always do a backup of my original media on other external drives.....habit simply due to running in RAID 0 with Sony Vegas Pro. Please chime in if you have any other thoughts and/or suggestions. Thanks again for your input and help. Ray


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Rainer Wirth
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 15, 2015 at 7:51:36 pm

Hi Ray,

the Raid gives you 20Gbs data. That's very good.
It will suit your needs.

cheers

Rainer

P.S. In practise thunderbolt will be slower than the specs say, but still enough speed for your needs.
We're talking about thunderbolt 2

factstory
Rainer Wirth
phone_0049-177-2156086
Mac pro 8core
Adobe,FCP,Avid
several raid systems


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Ray Sherman
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 15, 2015 at 9:44:39 pm
Last Edited By Ray Sherman on Mar 15, 2015 at 9:54:02 pm

Awesome....! At 20GBs that certainly would be fast enough. I assume you're referring to the R8 (8x 3TB) 24TB. Do you have any idea how much capacity I would have for 4k media (guesstimate time wise)? Thanks again, Ray


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Rainer Wirth
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 16, 2015 at 8:02:29 am

the speed with R6 or 8 is roughly the same.
In real you'll get around 800 MB/s Datarate. You'll loose 1 disc of capacity for Raid5 two discs for Raid6.

cheers

Rainer

factstory
Rainer Wirth
phone_0049-177-2156086
Mac pro 8core
Adobe,FCP,Avid
several raid systems


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Ray Sherman
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 16, 2015 at 11:51:07 am

Thanks for the info..... My final determination on either one will depend on a couple things;
1) How much original media can be imported from my external storage drives into the RAID drives for 4k editing?
2)Would the RAID read/write speed reduce with the more media that is introduced into the RAID drives?
Thanks again for all your help and input. Ray


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Rainer Wirth
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 18, 2015 at 11:52:11 am

1. I don't know how much space you need.
2. no loss of read/write speed even when the raid is filled up.
Leave a little headroom of free space (around 10% of the whole capacity.
A loss of read/write speed occurs mainly with eSata connections.

cheers

rainer

factstory
Rainer Wirth
phone_0049-177-2156086
Mac pro 8core
Adobe,FCP,Avid
several raid systems


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 18, 2015 at 12:35:07 pm

RAID arrays do loose throughput as they fill up, it's the nature of disk storage. There are some schemes, such as the one advertised by Facilis, which intentionally fragment data evenly across inner and outer portions of the disks, but that's pretty much a marketing gimmick. Leaving 10 to 20% free space is advised by most manufacturers.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Ray Sherman
Re: Needed: Setting Up RAID For iMac 5K For Video Editing
on Mar 18, 2015 at 10:11:58 pm
Last Edited By Ray Sherman on Mar 18, 2015 at 10:13:06 pm

Hi,
Thanks for the info....Ray


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