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raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb

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anand kamal
raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 7, 2015 at 2:27:05 am

hi friends, following certain advice from this forum, A month ago, I set up raid0 using two WD 6TB red hard drives for data storage (film editing), connected through my asus z87pro motherboard. I did this by adding some raid files during reinstallation of my windows 7 OS. Raid successfully created, it shows 10TB as a single folder and the Intel Rapid Storage Technology application was running fine. I never used the Raid drives for any purpose since it was created as I was extracting video footage in other drive.

A couple of days ago, I got an error notification telling me that raid drives failed. Intel Rapid Storage Technology showed that there is a disk failure and data may be lost. The connected two hard disks were marked with red cross, alike (as if both failed). When i restarted the computer, it showed me in red color that "error occurred in connecting" in member raid disk drives. Non-member drives were fine. At the time of failure and since the time i created, I at least have three 4TB external drives and three 2TB internal drives all connected to my CPU (cooler master haf942, asus z87pro mother board).

I now deleted the RAID set up and created new raid0 volume (luckily i had no data) and intel rapid storage technology shows "running normally."

Just in a couple of months, how could a raid0 fail?

Does overloading the cpu with many connected hard drives cause the raid failure?
due to interruption in power supply?
Can i turn the raid drives "offline" in disk management tool to preserve it until usage?

I am aware of the failure rate, but poor management would cause early failure, so pls suggest me to maintain the raid0 drives. Thanks.


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Bob Zelin
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 7, 2015 at 3:48:59 am

how could Raid0 fail? - because ALL DISK DRIVES SUCK. To be clear, all disk drives, even enterprise disk drives, are of poor quality.
NO ONE should EVER do RAID 0 for any reason (other than to boast performance speeds in a magazine ad). You are begging for trouble when you use RAID 0 - and I guess that you found trouble. What is the solution for you - BACK UP YOUR DATA constantly, and NEVER EVER use RAID 0 every again.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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anand kamal
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 7, 2015 at 4:01:45 am

thanks bob.. I opted for raid0, mainly for space and speed. My source footage is 3TB. For roundtrip, i create a proxy which would be around 1TB and take a colored master of about 2TB back to premiere for final DCP output (theater).

So, i am sure i need a total of 6TB. So if i want to connect raid using asus z87pro motherboard, i was suggested raid0 or raid1. Now after ur suggestion, if i chose raid1 over raid0, i can manage with the speed but doubt for space as I have two 6tb WD red hard drives. Or will raid-1 be fine for the space requirement? thanks


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Jon Schilling
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 7, 2015 at 5:44:42 pm
Last Edited By Jon Schilling on Jan 7, 2015 at 6:54:13 pm

Bob,

Sounds like this guy is only using 2 drives, so his choices are RAID 0 or RAID 1, both poor options, but the only ones he has.

Anand, RAID 1 you will lose 1 drives capacity & 1/2 the speed of RAID 0. Bob's right though, RAID 0 affords you no protection in the event of a drive failure. If all you've got is a 2 drive RAID, RAID 1 is your only real option, but the trade off is slower performance (1/2 the speed of RAID 1) & only 1 drives capacity.

I would highly recommend an external RAID with at least 8 drives in a RAID 6 configuration (for the best in protection & speed), but then again, that all depends on how important your data is to you. I always recommend having more capacity/overhead than what is needed in any particular project to my customers.


Jonathan Schilling
Senior Sales Manager
Proavio Storage by Enhance Technology Inc.
12221 Florence Ave.
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Dir: 562-777-3498
Main: 562-777-3488 X106
Fax: 562-777-3499
Email: jon@proavio.com





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anand kamal
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 8, 2015 at 1:33:47 am

Thanks Jon,

my project is an indie film intended to get buyers for release. There is no deadline. All i have to worry is for quality.

Raid with at least 8 drives is good but I cannot afford currently :(

My footage is 5d3 magic lantern raw files (1920X1080) which require 150 mb/s transfer rate. I recently found that one of my external WD hard disks provided me a real time playback during a trial roundtrip. So my raid set up with two 6tb WD, I hope, would give me enough speed even if I use raid1 (totaling only half the capacity of two drives and the speed of a single drive). But like you told, I will be working for a long time with raid, so raid1 would be better compared to raid0. Even if i am short of space, I can write my rendering data to an external drive. All i need for video editing is the read speed.

Just wanted to know if the above sounds good (with raid1) for my indie project. thanks again


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Jon Schilling
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 8, 2015 at 1:45:26 am

You should be fine in RAID 1 as long as you have the space & the speed to get the job done. RAID 1 over None for sure!

Jonathan Schilling
Senior Sales Manager
Proavio Storage by Enhance Technology Inc.
12221 Florence Ave.
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Dir: 562-777-3498
Main: 562-777-3488 X106
Fax: 562-777-3499
Email: jon@proavio.com





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anand kamal
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 8, 2015 at 1:55:42 am

thanks Jon :)

A doubt is that .. is raid0 failure a failure of the setup or the disks as such? because am gonna use the same two drives for creating raid1 volume. Currently it is in raid0 (reconnected after the first failure) and normal. I am gonna change to raid1. So i presume it is the set up of raid0 that is failing rather than the disks and so i can go ahead creating raid1 with those two same WD 6tb drives right?


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Jon Schilling
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 8, 2015 at 5:28:57 pm

Anand,

I hope I understand correctly.

If one of the 2 drives you had is bad, you need to replace the bad drive before creating a RAID 1 set.

Jonathan Schilling
Senior Sales Manager
Proavio Storage by Enhance Technology Inc.
12221 Florence Ave.
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Dir: 562-777-3498
Main: 562-777-3488 X106
Fax: 562-777-3499
Email: jon@proavio.com





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anand kamal
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 9, 2015 at 3:44:24 am

Hi Jon,

Raid0 was a failure because the intel rapid storage technology application showed me red cross mark on both raid disks (6tb WD). There was also "error occurred in member raid disk" during computer restart.

Now I deleted the raid0 volume and created the raid0 volume again (before my first post). Now the application shows the raid drives are Normal and a folder with 10TB created in my computer.

My doubt was that now it shows normal, so the disks might work good and there was a problem in raid0 setup. Because the disk are presumably good, shall i go forward with raid1 volume creation?


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Jon Schilling
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 9, 2015 at 4:13:48 am

Anand,

Sounds like you're all ready to RAID 1

Jonathan Schilling
Senior Sales Manager
Proavio Storage by Enhance Technology Inc.
12221 Florence Ave.
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Dir: 562-777-3498
Main: 562-777-3488 X106
Fax: 562-777-3499
Email: jon@proavio.com





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Sorin Nicu
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 11, 2015 at 1:43:57 pm
Last Edited By Sorin Nicu on Jan 11, 2015 at 1:55:19 pm

If you care at all about the data, stop using RAID 0. It doesn't help in editing speed and just multiplies chances of failure, especially on big drives.
WD Red drives are optimized for NAS and RAID in ventilated enclosures, but RAID0 in a PC is not really the proper use.

I am running now a RAID5 with three drives on Intel ICH10R and never had an issue. But those are not cheap "desktop" level drives.

However, I did start to see problems with both my WD and Seagate drives (not RAID, backup externals) just because... they lowered the price/GB. I think that in order to compete pricewise, they increased the density to unsustainable levels, especially on bigger hard drives, resulting in lower MTBF and shorter warranties. Heck, for some of <4TB drives they needed to lower the RPM from 7200 to 5400 just to be able to keep the errors low - for the brand new drives!!!

MTBF has also hidden connection to Non-recoverable read errors per bits read - WD RED has listed 1 per 10^14 bits.
If you have two drives, one 2TB and one 6TB, with same MTFB numbers, the 6TB one is three times more likely to fail in the same span of time. When you added two of those in RAID 0, you just doubled again the chance of failure.

http://www.raid-failure.com/


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Todd Perchert
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 13, 2015 at 7:56:07 pm

Anand - sounds like you want to make sure that you won't have a similar problem even with RAID-1. It sounds like you have 3 x 2TB & 2 x 6TB & a system drive??? I would check to make sure you have good power. You need a pretty good power supply to run all that. I've seen issues where a PC was so close to the edge of the power output of the PSU, that it worked fine for a short time, then at some point it would lose a drive and cause havoc on the RAID that was internal. This could be the case here. I'm just throwing that out there as something to check on.
Good Luck!
TC


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anand kamal
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 13, 2015 at 8:12:17 pm

Thank you Sorin and Todd.. it was informative....

I use cooler master 1000w power supply... there may seldom be voltage fluctuations. Yes, I now decided to unplug all the hard disks internal and external except the raid which i will be working on..


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 14, 2015 at 8:11:02 am

Where did you come across a data rate of 150 Mbps for Magic Lantern Raw? I checked and it appears to be in the 60-80 Mbps range. Mind that this is megabits/sec.
So, even 150 Mbps is just under 19 Megabytes/sec MB/sec while 60-90 Mbps is 7.5-11.25 MB/sec.
None of these need RAID0 with two SATA drives. Even a single drive with a mirror for safety will do just fine.

Ideally you should put one drive inside your machine and use a good drive like a GTech as the mirror and keep it outside the PC connected by USB3. And use a cloning software to keep them in sync. This way you have a redundant drive and an offsite backup too.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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anand kamal
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 14, 2015 at 10:09:33 am

thanks Neil... Sorry I meant 150 MB/s...Mine is full HD cinema DNG files. One frame is almost 4MB in size and 4 X 23.976seconds = 96 MB/sec... Also i practically faced difficulty in reading those cdng files in premiere.

I initially planned for a resolve-premiere roundtrip. Now i plan to edit in premiere directly. But it takes time to read. So I was told I can get the read speed and space via Raid. Now that I can edit in premiere directly, i can save spaces by not producing proxies. So raid 1, despite halving my space, lends me the read speed (double, like raid0). My footage is 3TB, no proxies, direct output to DCP (theatrical purpose) drive. As my writing speed is going to be normal anyways, I can write it to external drives too.

I was not aware of the mirroring technique. However, it could be useful for h264 dslr files i presume.

Trivia: I am a more of a screenwriter frm bio-background than a computer-guy. This being an indie feature, I'm doing it all myself.. Sorry if i m not good with computer-jargon :)


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 14, 2015 at 1:56:39 pm

Oh all right. CinemaDNG files, that explains the data rate.

However, I still feel that even if Premiere Pro CC supports native files, its 'healthier' for the system if you work on down-converted files like ProRes LT or even ProRes Proxy. Everything will move more fluidly in the timeline with this workflow.

About space taken by converted files, that shouldn't be much. Let's say you have 20 hrs of CinemaDNG at the stated 4 MB/frame. It will take up 6.91 TB. When converted to ProResLT the same 20 hrs will occupy just 687 GB. And it will play and render very fluidly.

Since you're on Windows you may have trouble converting to ProRes. You can select another codec, like DNxHD or any compressed codec delivering about 100 Mbps data rate and get very good looking pictures and saving space.

If you happen to be in India (totally guessing from your name), let me know, I'm in Mumbai and can help you with this workflow.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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anand kamal
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Jan 14, 2015 at 3:16:11 pm

So nice of you to think about helping me sir. I am in Chennai.

I was exactly doing the process of creating proxies that you mentioned. Of late, I faced troubles with the roundtrip as I cannot sync the xml from premiere to resolve (may be because of the converter I use to extract cdng files from raw).. not sure. Also I will have to check for cuts and transitions and audio sync. Only because the xml did not re-sync the videos in resolve for master coloring, I decided to edit cdngs in premiere directly. I found I had realtime playback, but some effects slowed it down. I render some group of files in timeline and carry on with edit in such cases.

My raw footage is almost 3TB, my extracted cdngs would be around 3.5Tb. Good thing is that I viewed all my raw footage even before extracting cdngs and I have selected the clips that will be imported to NLE. Based on the size that i noted (3TB), I think the total running hours would be around Eight.

I am following you in twitter and glad to have your help in case of doubts :)


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anand kamal
Re: raid0 failure within a month- WD 6tb
on Feb 10, 2015 at 10:39:33 am
Last Edited By anand kamal on Feb 10, 2015 at 10:40:05 am

friends, after the above suggestions from you all I have been using raid1 controlled by my asus z87pro motherboard, with two 6TB WD red turned to raid1.

The Intel Rapid Storage Technology software showed "raid1 degraded" and "port missing, unknown," when I restart, it started auto-rebuilding (i think it switched the mirror disk) the raid and worked properly for a day.

After a day again, it showed the same problem. I deleted the raid volume and I am using the disks as non-raid members but still in Raid mode (not AHCI mode). Even after i delete the raid volume, i still have data (same, mirrored while raid formation) in both my 6TB hard disks. As non-raid disks, I continued to work in premiere pro. HD tune pro software did a health check up for both of my 6TB hard disks and they were perfect. I carried on with my edit but yesterday, Intel Rapid Storage Technology popped up a message "sata disk removed." I just restarted the system and is now fine.

Two times, it was port 0 that was shown missing and yesterday, it was port 4 missing. I never switched the port of the two drives but once ensured if it is connected well with enough power supplies.

Is this a connectivity problem? or what should I do to avoid this problem.. Is something failing while accessing the data in the two disks? Everytime, the problem occurred while I work in premiere pro.

thanks,
anand


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