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Chris Mahoney
Canon 60D
on Sep 25, 2012 at 11:11:54 pm

Hi guys,

I have a small problem. I shoot video on my 60D and on some shots where I am in very bright sunlight, I have been using my variable ND filter to assist in keeping my 135mmL lens wide open at F2 the whole time. My problem is that I seem to have a weird hazy look to my shots though, the colour looks washed out and adjusting the ND doesn't help it just makes the image darker and not less hazy/washed out. I wanted to see if any of you guys had any ideas as to what this could be. Its really bugging me!





it looks really similar to this kind of problem. very washed out/hazy throughout the filters range.

The weather here has been rather bad of late so no chance of getting a sunny day to go out and shoot some test stuff.

Any advice?

Much appreciated


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shur harewood
Re: Canon 60D
on Sep 26, 2012 at 2:57:05 pm

Hi Chris what is your white balance setting or kelvin?


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John Young
Re: Canon 60D
on Sep 26, 2012 at 3:36:47 pm

Chris.
It is not uncommon for variable ND filters to result in a loss of sharpness and a general hazy look to the image, especially those ND filters on the inexpensive end of the pricing spectrum. (I know mine does). I am guessing you can probably see vignetting on the edges when your ND filter is cranked down all the way too.

So I think the filter is the culprit here, but that leads me to the question, why do you want to shoot wide open, f2 on a bright sunny day? If you shoot at f8 for example and use the ND filter a little more modestly, the problem won't be so pronounced. If you really want super shallow depth of field on a bright sunny day (you are talking knocking down the light some 16 stops!!) you might have to think about controlling your light somehow. An overhead silk can help with this.

John

http://www.johnathanyoung.com


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Chris Mahoney
Re: Canon 60D
on Sep 26, 2012 at 5:53:22 pm

First off, thanks very much for taking the time to post such a lengthy message, its much appreciated.

I had bought the ND Filter from a company here in the UK called 7dayshop.com who are usually great with all their photography products, they only cost me £30 each though so Im inclined to believe you may be right in that its a bit crap.

I suppose on the shots that I had issues with I could have stopped up a little but there was still room to stop down with the ND even when I was shooting wide open at F2. I seem to also be getting some reflection when using the ND and i'm trying to work out how to combat that, maybe the glare front he sun, I can't use my lens hood on the 135L whilst using the ND so maybe I need to try and find a way to approach it slightly differently but still get the results Im looking for. Shallow depth of field is still really important so thats a high priority but the most important thing is for it to look sharp and clean.

Maybe spend some proper money on good NDs? Did I just get a duff one?

Many thanks again

Chris


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Chris Mahoney
Re: Canon 60D
on Sep 26, 2012 at 6:24:33 pm

First off, thanks very much for taking the time to post such a lengthy message, its much appreciated.

I had bought the ND Filter from a company here in the UK called 7dayshop.com who are usually great with all their photography products, they only cost me £30 each though so Im inclined to believe you may be right in that its a bit crap.

I suppose on the shots that I had issues with I could have stopped up a little but there was still room to stop down with the ND even when I was shooting wide open at F2. I seem to also be getting some reflection when using the ND and i'm trying to work out how to combat that, maybe the glare front he sun, I can't use my lens hood on the 135L whilst using the ND so maybe I need to try and find a way to approach it slightly differently but still get the results Im looking for. Shallow depth of field is still really important so thats a high priority but the most important thing is for it to look sharp.

Again, below is a video which shows what i mean by hazy. Also the reflection issue, It looks as though its a reflection of what I'm looking at but on the other side of the filter. I shot almost straight on to a light bulb and if I pulled the focus slightly I could see another light bulb on the other side of the frame like a reflection!! Its really strange.







Many thanks again

Chris


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Chris Mahoney
Re: Canon 60D
on Sep 26, 2012 at 5:44:30 pm

Hi Shur,

I believe I was using the outside sunlight setting on the 60D.


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Rick Diamond
Re: Canon 60D
on Sep 27, 2012 at 5:30:56 pm

Hi Chris. At the end of the video, you mention using Technicolor Cinestyle. This picture style always has to be graded. If you don't want to grade try using Neutral for interiors and Faithful for exteriors. Sharpness 0 or 1, Contrast -4, Saturation -3. If needed you can still grade in post and add sharpness if necessary. I find that, on my 5D Mark III, Cinestyle is too noisy and requires too much grading. It does, however, substantially increase the dynamic range.

Rick


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Chris Mahoney
Re: Canon 60D
on Sep 27, 2012 at 6:07:42 pm

Rick, thanks for your help here. It's not actually my video its one I found online that showed a VariND being used that showed a representation of the problem. The image is always hazy when pointing, not directly, but at an angle into sunlight, and at an angle I get an image reflection that renders some of my shot useless which is really annoying as doing the stuff I do you can't do a redo!

Any ideas?

Many thanks again for your help

Chris


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Rick Diamond
Re: Canon 60D
on Sep 27, 2012 at 6:25:25 pm

Can you post a sample of your video?


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Casey Petersen
Re: Canon 60D
on Sep 27, 2012 at 7:01:25 pm

Have you tried a lens hood?



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Casey Petersen
Re: Canon 60D
on Sep 27, 2012 at 7:09:05 pm

The lens hood will block the glare from the sun.

I also have a set of cheap ebay ND filters, and I also have the 60D with 50mm 1.8 lens, and for me they are worthless. The darkest one is the 8, and the others don't seem to make much of a difference. Also with the darkest one, I get a color cast, so everything turns out with a magenta tint to it (that is virtually impossible to color correct, even in Color).

I have also had the opportunity to play with a $300 variable ND filter, which looks spectacular...so obviously you get what you pay for. I am looking for something that isn't quite as expensive, but is pretty good as well. A friend uses this one: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/742535-REG/Light_Craft_321_77mm_Fader..., and at $123 he says he has no problems with it. It fits a 77mm size lens ring, but I heard you can get adapters to fit on smaller lenses...and supposedly that doesn't hurt the quality, but I'm not sure about going down from 77 to 52 (like the 50mm 1.8 lens).

Casey



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Chris Mahoney
Re: Canon 60D
on Sep 27, 2012 at 7:26:15 pm

Sure, just posted this as an example of my shot, i hated it and couldn't use it but shooting at roughly the same angle the shots I got of different things were pretty horrid with the same issue.

Thanks again for your help

Chris







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Andrew Traweek
Re: Canon 60D
on Mar 4, 2013 at 12:11:23 am

I'm on the T3i, and I run into this problem all the time when I use my 50mm 1.8. I also get some weird lighter, hazier spots in the middle of the frame when I don't strictly control the light entering the lens. My hunch is that you're running into the same problem.

I'm using an old FD 50mm from 1985 with an adapter. (Don't laugh, it was free!) I've found that the lack of modern coatings on the glass, plus adding two more layers of glass in the adapter brings the picture quality down quite a bit from my kit lenses. Add an ND into the equation, and things just get muddy. That's why I only use my 50mm for very specific shots where I need something very stylized.


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Bob Cole
Re: Canon 60D
on Oct 19, 2012 at 9:02:10 pm

[Rick Diamond] " I find that, on my 5D Mark III, Cinestyle is too noisy and requires too much grading."

Hey Rick! Didn't know you were into DSLRs. Fun, isn't it? Have you tried some of the other profiles? What profile are you shooting with? And (veering off-topic a bit) have you tried Magic Lantern?

btw, Chris, I agree with Rick that you should look at your profile; try the default Canon profile to nail down your picture problem.

Bob C


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Rick Diamond
Re: Canon 60D
on Oct 20, 2012 at 1:51:21 pm

Hi Bob. Yeah, this is a lot of fun. After doing some pretty extensive testing, I've decided on the profiles I mentioned. Neutral for interiors and Faithful for exteriors. Sharpness at 1, Contrast at -4, Saturation at -3. These settings give me the most dynamic range with the least noise. In addition to Cinestyle, I've tried the Cinema and Flaat profiles. Cinema, in my opinion is just another look. It's not a flat picture style. Flaat does the dynamic range job, but, like Cinestyle, is too noisy. Of course, these are the results from my 5D Mark III. It might be different on the 60D or any other DSLR for that matter. I'm looking forward to checking out Magic Lantern when it's ready for the MKIII. I need my zebras!

Today, I'll be doing some ISO testing. On a shoot last week, I noticed a lot of noise on some exteriors, which were probably shot at very low ISO.

Rick


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Bob Cole
Re: Canon 60D
on Oct 22, 2012 at 2:44:33 am

Thanks. I'll have to try those settings. The big question for me is how to shoot on a Canon 60D so that it will be more compatible with footage from my EX1R. I'm assuming you still shoot with the EX3, so you must have a similar issue. Have you seen Alister Chapman's how-to video on XDCAM Picture Profiles? Very straightforward and convincing. http://www.xdcam-user.com/how-to-videos/
And http://www.xdcam-user.com/picture-profile-guide/


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Rick Diamond
Re: Canon 60D
on Oct 22, 2012 at 12:51:19 pm

I haven't used it yet as a two camera set up. I got it for times when I wanted to achieve a more filmic look.

Rick


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Bob Cole
Re: Canon 60D
on Oct 22, 2012 at 6:41:10 pm

I wasn't thinking so much of a two-camera set-up, with seamless intercutting between cameras - but I would like to improve the compatibility between my XDCAM and Canon footage.

So far it hasn't been an issue, as I've mainly used the DSLR to create timelapses or extreme telephoto shots. In those cases, the DSLR's footage is so stylistically different that I haven't had to worry about matching. But I'd like to use the DSLR for shallow DOF shots too, and that's where it would be neat to have a bit closer matching.


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