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Nikon D800/E and D4 hands-on comments about HD/Codec from an NPS shooter in NL

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Rob Manning
Nikon D800/E and D4 hands-on comments about HD/Codec from an NPS shooter in NL
on Feb 24, 2012 at 12:03:06 am

A bit from the trenches today on the Nikons pending for HDMI.

"The new D4 and D800/D800E are about to change that, I think. Not only do they offer full HD at up to 30fps progressive (60fps is possible at 1280x720), they also offer this stream as uncompressed video at 180Mbps (!) from the HDMI port. To make things even more useful, they have made it possible to have it completely free of the visual clutter (e.g., informational icons, settings, etc.) that is normally included in the HDMI output. This really is a boon to professional videographers who can now shoot full & uncompressed HD, something that previously was only possible with the much more expensive dedicated professional video cameras. To help post production/editing, it is now also possible to set up to 20 markers in the video stream. Audio has also been professionalized, not only can you hook up a stereo mike and headphones, the new VU meters allow you to fine tine their recording level. Oh, and if you want you can (of course?) make use of a separate PCM audio recording stream as well. Great features for the (professional) videographer!

Funny thing: Note that video recording on memory cards is restricted to just below half an hour, this is not a restriction of the hardware (recording from the HDMI stream doesn't suffer from this restriction), but purely driven by import regulations; equipment capable of recording video for more than 30 minutes are import-taxed much more heavily, thus making them much more expensive than equipment that doesn't."

From this blog: http://blog.hayobaan.nl/2012/02/nikon-d4-d800-d800e-hands-on.html

Also a comment from the Nikon forums about the HDMI codec etc. "1080p is becoming passe these days. With UHD becoming the new standard in Japan (8K over broadcast), the new H.265 spec about to be released with support for both 4K and 8K, and cameras like the Scarlet and others writing 4K or better files at 30p.. 1080 is about to become a footnote in history."

From: http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=190&topic_i..... reply #89.

All contingencies, buy and work around, or hold and buy later?

Food for the feeding of GAS (gear acquisition syndrome.

HTH's

Rob


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Nigel Thompson
Re: Nikon D800/E and D4 hands-on comments about HD/Codec from an NPS shooter in NL
on Feb 24, 2012 at 7:54:31 pm

AHHH Yes GAS:

We all have it dont we ..... lolol

High End, Production & Post Production
in the Caribbean
http://www.bistt.com


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DV Dude
Re: Nikon D800/E and 4K
on Feb 25, 2012 at 12:42:21 am

"1080p is becoming passe"

I think that is a tad dramatic :) Yes, there are cameras shooting 4K, but 4K is a long way from becoming the norm in the living room. 4K is more centered on film production. 1080p/i is going to be with us for a long time. NHK may be playing with 8k over broadcast in Japan, but that is not something most people are going to have to worry about for at least 5 years, and more likely 10, if at all.

If you are shooting for motion picture release, then 4K is the way to go. If you are shooting for TV, or the web, then 1080i is plenty fine. In Canada, where I live, the satellite and cable companies can't deliver 1080p yet, so sending the much larger 4k stream down the pipe to the living room is not going to happen for a very, very long time. This is combined with the fact that too many people are watching standard def TV on their HiDef sets because they don't want to pay extra for HD.

FYI - at CES this year, I sat through a demo of JVC's 4K projector showing up-rezed 1080 footage to 4k on a 150" screen. The 1080 footage looked spectacular.

DV Dude
The DV Shop
Toronto, Canada
http://www.dvshop.ca


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Rob Manning
Re: Nikon D800/E and 4K
on Feb 25, 2012 at 10:02:20 pm

Dude de la DV,

I agree with you, the OP over in Nikon's thread does lean toward the perfunctory and dramatic.

I was going to chime in with a similar comment to yours, but decided to let the big dog eat his chow, and go off for a nap although his point was made regardless.

5 or 10 years, yes, unless Google/Motorola or iJOBS does something mystical over set top boxes or HD innards in an economical way. iJOBS not so much, as they demand premiums for normative technology.

Thanks, couldn't agree more.

RM


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adeeb oberoi
Re: Nikon D800/E and 4K
on Feb 28, 2012 at 11:16:28 pm

I totally agree, 1080 will be here for a long time.

I have delivered several cinema productions to theaters and the cinemas I know all broadcast at 2k, even 4k films are down scaled to 2k. 2k is basically the same as 1080.

"I really dont see the benefit in a camera that shoots 4k but has a h264 or h265 format. I would prefer 1080 uncompressed (needless to say, to anything I prefer 4k uncompressed of course)".

A good production shot and edited 1080p will still look very good on a 4k screen. Many movies are filmed in 4k but edited in 2k (almost 1080).

NIKON is the king (if this is for real), the first uncompressed 1080p video through hdmi to an external HD (I will use a terabite).

Exactly what I was looking for. For this price its the very best available. color spacing of 4.2.2 uncompressed. Man for me this is great, half the price of the scarlet.

Thank you very much for the information on the Nikons.... great for any cinematographer!


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Mahmoud EL-Darwish
Re: Nikon D800/E and 4K
on Feb 29, 2012 at 10:55:21 pm

So the 30 minute take restriction on DSLR's like the Nikon D800 is an 'import' duty issue. That's interesting because that would suggest that the premium exacted from sales of 'dedicated' video cameras like the FS100/C300 etc is partially due to this duty. Am I correct? So... if only we can get Nikon & Canon to build the next gen cameras IN the USA that would nullify this duty wouldn't it? Or at least 'assembled in USA'. Humn...


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Nigel Thompson
Re: Nikon D800/E and 4K
on Mar 2, 2012 at 1:59:38 pm

One of My biggest questions about the D800 tho. Have not heard anyone ask it yet . Is

What frame rates actually come out the HDMI port. Last i heard HDMI does not support pSf yet... I own a D7000 and 1080i and 720p 576p & 480p comes out .... no 1080p.

Of course i intend to get a PIX240 with My 800 so i can cross convert if necessary but....... id prefer to have it native .... anyone have any knowledge on this ?

High End, Production & Post Production
in the Caribbean
http://www.bistt.com


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Andrew Somers
Re: Nikon D800/E and 4K
on Mar 12, 2012 at 11:04:46 am

Half the price of the Scarlett, yes - BUT even with the uncompressed HDMI out, it is STILL 422 and STILL ONLY 8 bit.

8 bits is not enough.

The Red give you RAW - and the difference is astoundingly important.



As for resolution - vertical and horizontal resolution is not as important as you might think. A frame of 35mm motion picture film is really only about the resolution of 2K. 4K does not really give you substantially greater sharpness - but more to the point, sharpness is not the critical factor in image fidelity.

Dynamic range and gamut size IS. So bit depth is more important than spacial resolution.

Don't get me wrong, the D4 is an amazing camera, and it pretty much destroyes anything Canon offers in that range - but it isn't a RED and it isn't an Alexa. Both RED and ALEXA have substantially greater bit depth, and an 8-bit system will never compete with them.

Now, if Nikon were able to get that HDMI output up to *at least* 10 bit, and also be able to use a LOG-C type curve as the Alexa can, then Nikon would pretty much own this market segment.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Nikon D800/E and 4K
on Mar 13, 2012 at 2:10:15 pm

[Rob Manning] " they also offer this stream as uncompressed video at 180Mbps"
If is 180Mbps is impossible that is Uncompressed.
1080/10b Uncompressed is near 1,2 Gbps, while 8b Unc is close to 900Mbps.


[Nigel Thompson] "What frame rates actually come out the HDMI port. Last i heard HDMI does not support pSf yet..."
No sense.
What you may have heard is that Progressive stuff travels as Interlaced (psf) in HDMI and SDI.
Otherwise you couldn't play Progressive stuff on interlaced monitors.


[Andrew Somers] "Half the price of the Scarlett, yes - BUT even with the uncompressed HDMI out, it is STILL 422 and STILL ONLY 8 bit.

8 bits is not enough."

That if is 8b/YUV. If the HDMI is putting out 8b/RGB (as I expect), things are very different.
That recorded to prores or AVID DNxHD is great.
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Andrew Somers
Re: Nikon D800/E and 4K
on Mar 13, 2012 at 9:52:33 pm

Even 8-bit RGB is *NOT ENOUGH* for wide gamut feature film work. 8 bit gives you only a tiny latitude that you have to fit the image into.


According to tests, the HDMI out of the D4 is 1080i, not 1080p. (Also, the output drops to 720P if you are recording on the camera itself, though that should not be an issue if using an external recorder).


All specs I have read is that the HDMI out is 422, which is YUV (technically it is YCbCr), and NOT RGB.



And again, if Nikon was able to make the D4 HDMI out work at 10 or 12 bit 1080p24 with the possibility to apply a LOG-C curve, this camera would be a total game changer.

As it *stands* it's a good solid camera, but not a choice I would make for principal photography for a feature film.


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