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adeeb oberoi
External HardDrive
on Feb 22, 2012 at 2:54:51 pm

Is there a way to record dslr on any thing else then H264?

Like use an external hard drive or so?

Adeep Oberoi


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Steve Crow
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 22, 2012 at 3:29:25 pm

Well I know a few of the very latest DSLRs, like the NIkon D4, let you capture uncompressed video ouf of the HDMI port but I don't know any format details. For that camera in particular there was some early concerns that you couldn't be recording the signal to the storage cards at the same time you were getting the signal out of the HDMI port, I don't know if that issue? was resolved or not.

Oh another issue was that not only did you get the video out of the HDMI but also all the overlayed menus that you would seen on your LCD screen which is not useful. I seem to recall that now there are cameras that don't do that anymore.

Do a search on Google for DSLR and HDMI out and see what you get.

Steve Crow
Crow Digital Media
http://www.CrowDigitalMedia.com


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Noah Kadner
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 22, 2012 at 11:45:52 pm

ATOMOS Ninja, BlackMagic Intensity Shuttle, AJA Ki Pro- you name it.

Noah

Call Box Training.
Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Panasonic AC160/130.


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adeeb oberoi
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 23, 2012 at 12:27:39 am

Thanks you, will these give me an un-compressed format?

I am trying to get a better quality then h264 for color correction and chroma key filming.


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Noah Kadner
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 23, 2012 at 12:50:54 am

The Blackmagic is uncompressed- the others are ProRes. Which is my opinion is already about as much info as the sensor itself can achieve. You want a cleaner signal- you need a camera with a better sensor and better signal path = more $.

Noah

Call Box Training.
Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Panasonic AC160/130.


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adeeb oberoi
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 23, 2012 at 3:18:59 pm

Thank you,

Pro res is OK as long as its not H264 (the dslr camera format).

Will the signal written to the external HD by pass the cam sensor? Or will it just convert the h264 to pro res (that will not be any better then).

Seems all dslr have the h264 sensor how ever expensive the cam is h264 is actually a consumers format and this is the only reason I cant use dslr because of chroma key projects and color correction (h264 is a weak format for good color correction).

DSLR are super great for the rest, if only I could get a better format recorded.

Greetings and thx for the response


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Phil Balsdon
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 23, 2012 at 9:15:17 pm

The only HDSLR camera available at the moment that you might have some success with is the Panasonic / Lumix GH2, particularly with some of the Magic Lantern hacks available.

The yet to be released Nikon D800 (US$2,999) may be able to give you a clean HDMI out, but there is a bit of confusion about how and the quality at this point.

Non of the Canon HDSLRs will give you a clean image out the HDMI port, it is a viewfinder image only ie it will have all the camera settings supered over it.
Added to the Canon issue is is that when you connect an external device to the HDMI port it disables viewing in the camera, you will need an HDMI splitter to view what you are recording.

The soon to be released Canon 5D MkIII is rumoured to have a higher on board bit rate, but who knows for sure exactly what that will be?

The reality is none of these cameras are really suitable for composite green screen work. Low depth of field is also a feature you don't want for green screen because you will need sharp edges on your foreground subject to get a clean matte for the key.

Cinematographer, Steadicam Operator, Final Cut Pro Post Production.
http://philming.com.au
http://www.steadi-onfilms.com.au/


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Noah Kadner
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 23, 2012 at 11:07:50 pm

Bottom line is- if you need clean signal you really want a camcorder with clean HDMI or HD-SDI out. I'd suggest Sony EX3, Panasonic AF100 or Panasonic AC160. Any DSLR is you get what you pay for- i.e. compressed signal. No free lunch...

Noah

Call Box Training.
Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Panasonic AC160/130.


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adeeb oberoi
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 25, 2012 at 5:38:05 pm

I was hoping o fix the depth of field by using good lights and a high aperture setting.

I love the HDSR look but I really dislike the H264, can hardly do any color correction without distortion.


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adeeb oberoi
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 25, 2012 at 5:40:54 pm

Yep looks like, no free lunch, I tried all the cams you suggested in different production shoots, all are fine. Even tried the Red Cam which is of course super for post (Raw Red files).

I just love the dslr look and they are in expensive, seems that they purposely use h264, if they had a raw format... pfffff, would be super.


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Steve Crow
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 25, 2012 at 5:47:33 pm

Are you shooting using a "flat" picture profile setting? Those are designed to give you maximum latitude for color correction and is what most of the pros are using (not all, not all). If you have no idea what I am talking about look up in this forum or on the Google for Philip Bloom Picture Profile settings or simply flat picture profile.

Steve Crow
Crow Digital Media
http://www.CrowDigitalMedia.com


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adeeb oberoi
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 25, 2012 at 6:14:14 pm

thx, I am not shooting this production as yet, will be soon though.

Was thinking of buying a new cam, like the scarlet. Thought a dslr would be a great option if not for the format. It is way less expensive then the scarlet and has the cinematic look as well, opposed to normal video cams.


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Phil Balsdon
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 25, 2012 at 8:42:53 pm

If a Scarlet is in your price range and you like the HDSLR "look" then you might also consider the Canon C300. It's less expensive than the Scarlet, when you've added all the necessary extras to get through a day of shooting. The testing I've done on mine so far shows that the onboard CF card MXF 4.2.2 recording gives an excellent chroma key.

Gone also are the moiree, aliasing, 12 minute per shot record limit, and it records full PCM audio.

Cinematographer, Steadicam Operator, Final Cut Pro Post Production.
http://philming.com.au
http://www.steadi-onfilms.com.au/


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adeeb oberoi
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 25, 2012 at 5:42:49 pm

I was hoping o fix the depth of field by using good lights and a high aperture setting.

I love the HDSR look but I really dislike the H264, can hardly do any color correction without distortion.


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Rob Manning
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 23, 2012 at 11:42:09 pm

Hi Steve,

A bit from the trenches today on the Nikons pending for HDMI.

"The new D4 and D800/D800E are about to change that, I think. Not only do they offer full HD at up to 30fps progressive (60fps is possible at 1280x720), they also offer this stream as uncompressed video at 180Mbps (!) from the HDMI port. To make things even more useful, they have made it possible to have it completely free of the visual clutter (e.g., informational icons, settings, etc.) that is normally included in the HDMI output. This really is a boon to professional videographers who can now shoot full & uncompressed HD, something that previously was only possible with the much more expensive dedicated professional video cameras. To help post production/editing, it is now also possible to set up to 20 markers in the video stream. Audio has also been professionalised, not only can you hook up a stereo mike and headphones, the new vu meters allow you to fine tine their recording level. Oh, and if you want you can (of course?) make use of a separate PCM audio recording stream as well. Great features for the (professional) videographer!

Funny thing: Note that video recording on memory cards is restricted to just below half an hour, this is not a restriction of the hardware (recording from the HDMI stream doesn't suffer from this restriction), but purely driven by import regulations; equipment capable of recording video for more than 30 minutes are import-taxed much more heavily, thus making them much more expensive than equipment that doesn't."

From this blog: http://blog.hayobaan.nl/2012/02/nikon-d4-d800-d800e-hands-on.html

Also a comment from the Nikon forums about the HDMI codec etc. "1080p is becoming passe these days. With UHD becoming the new standard in Japan (8K over broadcast), the new H.265 spec about to be released with support for both 4K and 8K, and cameras like the Scarlet and others writing 4K or better files at 30p.. 1080 is about to become a footnote in history."

From: http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=190&topic_i... reply #89.

All contingencies, buy and work around, or hold and buy later?

Food for the feeding of GAS (gear acquisition syndrome.

HTH's

Rob


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Steve Crow
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 24, 2012 at 1:48:44 am

thanks for the update Rob!

For me, I'mw waiting to see what Canon announces for the 5DMIII and their new "Cinema Cam" which is supposed to be like a baby brother (or sister) to the C300.

For me, a camera in the price range of a 5DMII that has full audio capabilities, reduced rolling shutter, two storage card slots and that eliminates the over heating problem would be just about the ticket. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few dream specs but you get the idea. The CS300, while nice and everything, is just too darn expensive - it's going to be awhile before they come down to $1-2K price range, (5-6 years???)

Steve Crow
Crow Digital Media
http://www.CrowDigitalMedia.com


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Rob Manning
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 25, 2012 at 12:15:13 am

New Canon specs say 24MP, and will be released on the 27th.

$3500 US retail.

Check No Film School or Canon rumors.


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adeeb oberoi
Re: External HardDrive
on Feb 28, 2012 at 12:37:26 am

This is great, NIKON is the king. The first uncompressed video through hdmi to an external HD (I will use a terabite).

Exactly what I was looking for. For this price its the very best available. color spacing of 4.2.2 uncompressed. Man for me this is great, half the price of the scarlet.

I have delivered several cinema productions to theaters and they all broadcast at 2k, even 4k films are down scaled to 2k. 2k is basically 1080. I really dont see the benefit in a camera that shoots 4k but has a h264 or h265 format. I would prefer 1080 uncompressed. (needless to say, to anything I prefer 4k uncompressed of course).
A good production shot and edited 1080p will still look very good on a 4k screen.

Thank you very much for this information on the Nikons.... great for any cinematographer!


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Shian Storm
Re: External HardDrive
on Apr 6, 2012 at 5:32:50 pm

There are options to record the hdmi out on the Panasonic GH2 HDSLR in prores. It is a clean uncompressed, 8bit 1080 signal. The Atomos Ninja will record it as prores and the results are fantastic.

But with the new hack developments on the GH2, it's kinda a moot point as you can now record at 150Mb/s on the cards which is a faster data rate than DVCPROHD, and approaching ProRes 422 HQ.

Check out http://www.personal-view.com for details on hack developments, etc. (the site is a forum so it takes a little getting used to how everything is listed before you are able to follow the threads) The latest developments are Orion and Sedna.


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