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8mm Direct to 5dMk2

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Ryan Orr
8mm Direct to 5dMk2
on Apr 3, 2011 at 11:48:00 am



I just got myself a Canon 60D, and I realize the difference between the 5D and the 60D is the cropped sensor, but I'm still hopeful that I can still get this to work on my 60D. I'm wondering if there are any lens/film experts out there that could help me with my own Super8 film transfers.

The part of the video that I'm trying my best to wrap my head around is where he takes the rear element from his broken Zeiss lens, turns it around, and tapes it to the projector's lens. I realize that, by turning it around, it will enlarge the image...right?

Also, maybe a 2nd approach to this would be to get a macro lens possibly? I have 2 actually, but they won't do the job I don't think. The lenses that I have are actually for full framed sensors, so using them on the 60D, you would think it would be possible.

Reguardless, if anyone could brainstorm with me and help with a solution, it would be much appreciated!

P.s, I would rather not use the other method where you project the Super8 film on a white peice of paper, and then shoot the piece of paper with teh 60D. That would be my last option, because I believe that the projecting directly to the sensor would be superior.

Also, I am aware of any flickering/frame rate issues I may have, and I'm confident that I know how to get around those issues. My question of transferring is specifically about direct projection to sensor, and not any other issues that could be present.

Thanks!


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Ryan Orr
Re: 8mm Direct to 5dMk2
on Apr 3, 2011 at 11:53:10 am

* GASP!!!

I just rewatched the video, and realized that the part of the lens he takes is the FRONT element, not the rear! Although, I believe that would still achieve the enlarging of the image that I noted in my first post...

However, with this new information, does this change anything?


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Dave LaRonde
Re: 8mm Direct to 5dMk2
on Apr 4, 2011 at 4:40:18 pm

Isn't 8mm film shot & projected at 18fps? Do you have a way to compensate for the frame rate mismatch?

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Brent Dunn
Re: 8mm Direct to 5dMk2
on Apr 4, 2011 at 8:05:09 pm

There is a service in LA that you can send your footage too. They will develop and transfer it to whatever format you wish. I don't use 8mm, so you'll have to google it.

Brent Dunn
Owner / Director / Editor
DunnRight Films
DunnRight Video.com
Video Marketing Toolbox.net

Sony EX-1,
Canon 5D Mark II
Canon 7D
Mac Pro Tower, Quad Core,
with Final Cut Studio

HP i7 Quad laptop
Adobe CS-5 Production Suite





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Ryan Orr
Re: 8mm Direct to 5dMk2
on Apr 19, 2011 at 4:35:10 pm

Success!

Made strides the other day in this project of mine.

I took a simple $2 LED flashlight and used masking tape to act as diffusion. That was my light source. Since it's super cool and has no heat to it at all, I was able to stop the film and "focus" the 60D to the film. Then, I was able to purchase a very old/cheapo lens on ebay for $1. Dissembled it and took the rear element out and stuck it in reverse on the projector's lens. Works very well now! Super 8 has audio as well, so I simply took the external monitor audio and put it in the mic input of the 60D. The audio coming out of the projector is very vert hot, so by turning down the rec lvls of the 60D and turning down the volume on the projector, I was able to get really clean audio as well.

The only issue that I have right now is this. The film's aspect ratio is squarish (IDK...4x3 maybe?), and the 1080p is 16x9. Right now, because of the smaller sensor of the 60D, the image projected on the sensor is basically cutting off the very tops and bottoms of the image. Sure, it's okay-ish, but I'm losing the tops and bottoms of the original footage, and that's not something i want to do with these memories.

My only thought on this is this. Since I cannot move the 60D any closer to the projector (really, it's right up to it, almost touching it), (and even if I could move it closer, the projector couldn't focus that near), my next thought would be to move the rear element of my ebay lens closer to the front element of the projector's lens. This could straighten out the cone shaped projection of the image much sooner, and keep the image smaller as it's projected on the smaller sensor.

I'm pretty sure this is the solution of my problem. Next is to figure out how to fix this problem, and keep the wife happy...since I'll be adding more time to this DIY telecine project, lol.

@Dave LaRonde
I was able to minimize the frame rate issue/flickering greatly to where only a very keen eye would pick it up. By setting the 60D to 1080p @ 30fps, then the shutter to 1/50, there isn't a syncing issue at all to the naked eye. Sure, there's a bit of a jitter, but that's from the film @ 18fps. It would look the same as if I was projecting on a screen. To me, it's aesthetically the same.

@Brent Dunn
HA! Now I don't need any stinking service! Lol.


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Michael Nesbit
Re: 8mm Direct to 5dMk2
on Jan 20, 2012 at 7:55:42 pm

I'm doing the same thing with the same camera, 60D, and a Eumig projector! Glad I found this thread! Does it matter what lens you use for the back element? I have an old Promaster lens that I thought about disaseembling. I know on the original video the guy uses a 35mm Zeiss, which I do not have. I want something cheap but still works fine. The promaster I already own so it would be the cheapest method but if that does not work what do you recommend? Did you slow the projector down with using dual rubber belts to slow it a bit? I heard that helps with flicker. Also, why did you use 30 instead of 24fps on the 60D? Which LED's did you purchase? Can you send me a link? I purchased some LED strips but I'm not sure if I got the right ones for the job! Thanks so much and I hope we can both get incredible footage of our old memories!


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Rebekah Simoneaux
Re: 8mm Direct to 5dMk2
on Mar 23, 2012 at 12:36:49 am

Was curious how this set up works with a crop sensor... did either of you get your footage captured? Would love to see the results...

Ryan, did you have any luck getting more of the image on the sensor?


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Ryan Orr
Re: 8mm Direct to 5dMk2
on Mar 23, 2012 at 1:02:51 am

Hey guys, I'm glad my old thread is being of SOME use :D

Michael - I can't recommend whether or not to use your Promaster. I'm not an optics specialist, and only have a vague/basic understanding on how lenses work. I bought a random old lens from ebay and just frankensteined my setup together. To me, it worked decently, however the image is being cropped by the small sensor of the 60D. So you'll just have to experiment, as not all lenses are created equal. Maybe the rear element would work, but who knows. Just try it out if it's a lens of cheap value...

Rebekah - Below is a link to my YouTube account that has a 3-minute reel of footage. Yep, that's me! Now, be mindful, that footage was out of focus to begin with (my dad ain't no cameraman!), so when I was getting the projected image in focus on the sensor, I looked at the outer edges of the film strip and focused on that. Also, it's YouTube...it ain't the best footage at all. However, if I were to play this on my laptop/tv with it's full resolution/quality, it's awesome.

I guess this isn't the best kind of test footage you may be looking for, but with very minor banding I think it works nicely. I defend the flickering a little bit. It's super 8 film at 18fps...it's gonna flicker on the projector, and I think it should flicker on the tv screen. It preserves the old film look and the effect is okay by me. There may be some way to get rid of it and make it look like a 24fps movie, but to me that isn't old home movie super 8mm footage...







Also, Rebekah, I kinda abandoned this project, so no I haven't experimented on getting the whole image on the sensor. I do stand beside my theory on how to get the whole image on the sensor (read one of my posts on this theory). In my head, shortening the distance between the film strip and the modified "rear element" setup would work. The only thing is you would have to flip the footage horizontally and vertically in the edit, since the optics flips the image when you are capturing.

I hope that helps a little for you guys!
Ryan


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Rebekah Simoneaux
Re: 8mm Direct to 5dMk2
on Mar 23, 2012 at 3:00:35 pm

haha awesome.. audio was great! I'll have to experiment.. i'll try to post back with my results if anyone is interested.

Ryan, thanks for the quick response!


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