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Bugs in FCP for Canon 7D 24p footage

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Pat Smith
Bugs in FCP for Canon 7D 24p footage
on Feb 6, 2010 at 5:04:21 pm

I am running into a brick wall on my 24p FCP sequences. All of my 30p and 60p footage will transcode into ProRes or DVCPro HD with no issues. I "match sequence settings with clip settings" and I'm good to go.

All of my 24p footage loses audio sync when I do the same thing when setting up my sequences. Both ProRes and DVCPro HD sync up perfectly in QT player and on a friend's Mac running Premier, but in FCP, the audio needs to come in at around 95% of the video to sync up (using fit to fill). XDCAM HD 1080p24 and 7d's Native H.264 sync perfectly. but I don't want to edit in them.

Apple's HD Uncompressed 8-bit 1080p24 and AIC HD 720p24 both show the same audio sync problems as ProRes and DVCpro HD. Using Cineform to get to ProRes also had the same issues.

Another piece of the puzzle is when I open the clips in QT player and go to the inspector. the H.264 and Xdcam clips show that the audio and video tracks have identical lengths, but the formats that won't sync in FCP show longer audio lengths than video. In spite of the conflicting metadata, Qt player and premiere syncs the footage that FCP won't???

Do I have a bad camera? Anyone else have these issues?

Thanks.


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Dane Henry
Re: Bugs in FCP for Canon 7D 24p footage
on Feb 6, 2010 at 7:33:00 pm

When you are working at 24p what is the capture setting of your Audio/Video settings? make sure it has a timebase of 24p (not 30p or 60) at whatever codec you are using (DvcProHD). I know it doesn't seem like that should matter but I have found that it does. Worth a try.

-dane


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Jonathan Ziegler
Re: Bugs in FCP for Canon 7D 24p footage
on Feb 6, 2010 at 7:46:17 pm

Hi there, I don't usually use the audio from either the 7D or 5D as it auto-adjusts the gain - making for weird audio. I've read about issues with the audio working prior to converting to prores and then not working when brought into FCP. How off is the sync? Is it a frame or 2 and a nudge will fix it or is it something else?

Do you have audio from an external source? I use the Zoom H4 for audio, but I have issues with that sound as well over long periods (I'm reading this is fixed with the H4n). I think this is actually a bug with the Zoom, but when I use the external audio and sync with 24P footage from 7D, using the 7D's captured audio as reference (I also use a slate), I don't have issues for short clips.

Since others are seeing the problem, it could be a few factors: the 24P footage may not be exactly 23.976 (7D problem?) - don't pulldown the footage, treat it like plain 24p video unless you are planning to convert to film; the audio, when demuxed (?), may no longer sync up which could be the camera or the conversion or the file format - 7D uses linear PCM (at 48khz at ??? bitrate) which should be fine, but there you go. Problem could be with FCP, but I'm inclined to think it's the files and not the app (mostly since I seldom have issues with all kinds of weird audio/video in FCP). Try delinking the audio from the video in FCP, move the audio to soundtrack or cubase or another audio app and make sure it's all good and get the audio settings. Make sure those settings match with what FCP is expecting. In the future, I suggest using external audio from a Zoom or another external audio mixer/recorder device with XLR inputs for better control (just saw the new H16 which looks really neat for $400, but the H4n is now about $300).

There is a preset from Canon for the 5D which I think works for the 7D, though 5D still has only 24 and 30 fps (NOT 24P/30P)

7D audio tests:
http://vodpod.com/watch/2529950-canon-7d-audio-demo
http://www.coffeyinteractive.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1776&sid=a7cbc0...






Do a search in google for 7D audio sync and you will see a ton of stuff.

Jonathan Ziegler
http://www.electrictiger.com/
520-360-8293


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Pat Smith
Re: Bugs in FCP for Canon 7D 24p footage
on Feb 7, 2010 at 1:10:33 am

Tried the AV settings and threw away my prefs. Still no good. Since I'm not logging and capturing or logging and transferring, none of those settings work.

I did read about sync issues and workflow solutions. I do use use double system sound with a zoom h4n. I ordered it the same time I got the camera. I need the scratch track to use Plural eyes to sync up. I shot a project that is interview heavy. I'm off by 5%, not just a frame or two. Over a 3;40;00 interview, the audio finishes 9 seconds before the video does.

This only happens with 24p footage shot with my camera and transcoded into the formats I mentioned earlier. It doesn't happen with my 7d footage shot at 30p or 60p. It doesn't happen in FCP with the native h.264 footage or footage transcoded into XDcam HD. It doesn't happen when and of the other 24p codecs are opened in the QT player. All the different codecs sync up perfectly in my friend's Adobe Premiere. I either have a funky camera or I'm seriously messing up my FCP sequences. I've been editing on Avids since the early 90's and on FCP since 2000 so I'm used to being able to figure this stuff out.

I was hoping that the specific problem would ring a bell with someone out there. I can lay my tracks down, lay the audio back in using fit to fill and sync them that way. But to smoothly edit the way I'm accustomed, I would have to render the raw interviews as new clips and bring them back in. It makes me want to avoid 24p on this camera for future projects.



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Bouke Vahl
Re: Bugs in FCP for Canon 7D 24p footage
on Feb 7, 2010 at 11:11:10 am

Well, according to my math, you're off 4%
That sounds like a 24 / 25 problem.
Using this logic, if seems you have shot at 25, drag that clip in a 24 timeline and there is a 1:1 frame relation, your material gets stretched by 25 / 24 * 220 seconds = 229 seconds.
There is your 9 seconds difference..

Does the video in your timeline line up with the external audio?
If so, it's a really weird problem.




Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro's


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Pat Smith
Figured it out
on Feb 8, 2010 at 3:03:56 am

Bouke's post got me to thinking about my setup. I forgot to mention that I used qtChange to add time of day timecode to my original h.264 files before I ran them through compressor. It turns out that I didn't use qtChange's simple set up menu that sets default frame rate. It's a drop down menu that isn't on the main interface. It was set to a pal default. I tested new footage with the frame rate properly set and everything syncs up. I guess the footage worked in QT player since it doesn't clock to timecode. I don't know why the XDcam HD codec worked, but at least I know how to deal with my footage in the future.. Thanks for all the thoughts and advice.


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Figured it out
on Feb 8, 2010 at 10:21:55 am

Pat,

Oy, mea culpa...
But you are running an old version of QTchange then.
(i know there was a bug that sometimes a speed change occurered even when you did not ask for it.)

But that was a long time ago (well, in software timespace), the bug was worked out in 0.6, and it's in 0.7 now.

I still have to figure it out what the speed change does in FCP.
(I know it works fine with Avid, but QT has both play duration and FPS, one would think both are locked, but no..)
So if somebody could eplain this a bit, that would be great.

Btw, latest version can take the time information from the .THM files.
(Even if you have converted them to Prores first, as long as the THM's travels with the renders.

As for all my software, i update on regular basis, so it can never hurt to have a look every now and then to see if there is a newer version. (QTchange is now in 0.7)

hth,


Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro's


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Pat Smith
Re: Figured it out
on Feb 8, 2010 at 11:07:17 am

I think I downloaded it less than 4 weeks ago. How do I find the version number? It's a great application (I donated within minutes of using it). I had no problems with 30p footage at all. After I checked the 23.98(FCP) setting in the drop down menu yesterday, I had no problems with test 24p footage. Any idea how to strip the TC off of my video and start over?
Thanks,
Pat


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Figured it out
on Feb 8, 2010 at 11:12:32 am

Pat,
Latest version can either strip off the TC, or replace it with a fresh new track.

The version number is at the bottom of the page, and is in the application and manual.
(The download DMG name is the same to keep links alive)

Do me a favour, contact me direct, i've go another matter to discuss.
Bouke at videotoolshed dot com.




Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro's


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kendall Ware
Re: Figured it out
on May 25, 2010 at 7:03:33 pm

PLEASE HELP ME! I recently bought the Canon 7d and cannot figure out the best way to upload it into FCP. I currently use the USB cord and it opens up in IPHOTO then I use mpegstreamclip to get it into FCP but the quality is not as good.

Do I need to get a card reader and go another route?

What are the best settings to get my clips to stay the same when putting them in the FCP time line.

Please any and all information will be appreciated. Thanks!


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