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overheating and interviews

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Bob Cole
overheating and interviews
on Dec 19, 2010 at 6:38:51 pm

I understand the overheating issue requires a stop every ten minutes, but I'm unclear as to the specifics.

Are certain DSLRs able to run longer than others? How long do you have to wait for the camera to cool down between takes?

Thanks.

Bob C


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Richard Harrington
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 19, 2010 at 6:40:51 pm

Your merging tech limitations.

DSLR cameras typically have between 5 and 20 minute record time limitations depending on manufacturer.

Overheating rarely happens when using fast memory cards and a normal video workflow. Cameras CAN overhear, I just don't personally experience it often.

Richard M. Harrington, PMP

Author: From Still to Motion, Video Made on a Mac, Photoshop for Video, Understanding Adobe Photoshop, Final Cut Studio On the Spot and Motion Graphics with Adobe Creative Suite 5 Studio Techniques


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Errol Lazare
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 19, 2010 at 7:52:43 pm

I notice that my 7D overheats all the time but my 5D can be started and stopped every 12 minutes in order to shoot a 3 hour interview and it has not overheated.

Errol X. Lazare
EXL Films
http://www.exlfilms.com


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Sohrab Sandhu
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 19, 2010 at 8:49:28 pm

My t2i has only heated up twice in 5 months use... and surprisingly 30-45 secs of rest gave it ample time to work again!

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


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Bill Davis
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 19, 2010 at 9:52:02 pm

Bob,

If I may - I think you're over thinking this decision by a pretty significant margin.

You can't understand DSLR video by talking to others. You honestly have to do it yourself.

Whether you become a fan of the process gets decided over the course of about a minute not long after you buy a camera. You'll fumble and fiddle for a while - then you'll go shoot something - whatever you like as your first test.

Then you'll come back and have some minor ingest and capture hassles to overcome but you'll eventually work them out and put the picture on your screen - on your system - and one of two things will happen.

Either you'll say "it's fine, but it's not worth the hassles for the potential of what I'm seeing here as this image relates to my life, my work, my budget and my peace of mine.

Or, like hundreds of thousands of us all over the world, you'll look at the PICTURES and say - "Woah - I can get pictures like THIS for the cost of THAT camera? Oh my GOD. I don't care if I have to record my audio on a 1969 Wollensack reel to reel - I'm selling everything and THIS is my new visual standard - PERIOD."

This in a nutshell, is why DSLR video is a huge deal right now.

New cameras will change this. The industry will move on. But right now, you have to make the ABOVE choice - and it's NOT a choice about specs or lenses or even workflow per se - it's a choice about whether you OPEN YOURSELF to the WOW - or whether you don't need one in your practice right now.

Both are OK. But you will NEVER understand the WOW if you just read about it and talk to others.

Good luck with your decisions.



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Bob Cole
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 20, 2010 at 12:41:14 am

Agreed, I do need to take the plunge - I just want to jump into the right pool, camera-wise.

For interviews with "real folks," I need to be able to run continuously for as long as possible, without overheating. So far, it sounds as if the 5d>7d - anybody have experiences using the 60d for long takes?


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Peter DeCrescenzo
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 20, 2010 at 6:28:21 am

Hi Bob: You may wish to investigate the new Panasonic DMC-GH2 (and its predecessor the DMC-GH1).
http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh2/index.html

These cameras almost never overheat. I'm sure if they were operated in insanely hot ambient temps they might overheat, but in temps tolerable by their human operators GH2 & GH1 cams aren't known to overheat like Canon cams occasionally do.

The NTSC versions of the GH2 & GH1 can record clips without a time length limit, up to the capacity of the SDHC memory card. So, for example, a GH2 can record for about 45 minutes continuously in the cam's highest quality 1080p24 mode using a 8GB card.

(PAL GH2 & GH1 cams are limited to 29:59 max per clip because of EU-imposed tax restrictions.)

My favorite GH2 feature: Its built-in 1.5 million dot resolution, always-available, live electronic viewfinder. Much higher res than the built-in LCD monitors on other DSLRs (the GH2 has a LCD, too). The GH2's 100% view EVF is great for live focus, framing & playback. And because the GH2's EVF is built-in, you don't have to buy an expensive LCD magnifying loupe. The GH2 also features a live, full-HD HDMI output for critical monitoring.

I've owned a GH1 for about a year, and I just took delivery of a new GH2 last week. Currently GH2 cams are in extremely short supply in the US, so you'll probably have time to research it thoroughly while we wait for it to become more readily available in the US.

There's lots more GH2-related info in threads elsewhere in this forum. Cheers.

---

http://www.peterdv.com


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Jason Myres
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 21, 2010 at 5:16:44 am

[Bob Cole] "anybody have experiences using the 60d for long takes?"

Is 8 hours (of 12min takes) long enough?



JM


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Bob Cole
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 21, 2010 at 5:24:37 am

Great job Jason. Thanks for sharing your very convincing and well-produced test.


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Peter DeCrescenzo
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 21, 2010 at 8:44:09 pm

Hi Jason: Thanks for taking the (considerable) time to create that test. Good stuff.

It's interesting to note that with a GH2 you can shoot 8 hours of 1080p24 AVCHD footage @ 24mb/s -- a 6 hr. continuous clip, plus a 2 hr. continuous clip -- using only 2 SD cards (a 64MB card, plus a 32MB card). Of course, this will require using the optional AC adapter for takes of this length.

Info here:
http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh2/movie.html

It goes without saying that, most of the time, you don't need or want to record continuous takes anywhere near that long. But if you did, the GH2 might be the camera to use. Another tool in the toolbox.

Cheers.

---

http://www.peterdv.com


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Bob Cole
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 21, 2010 at 9:59:49 pm

Thanks Peter. The GH2 looks great. The only negative: Some very knowledgeable people have warned me that the AVCHD codec is a concern.


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Peter DeCrescenzo
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 21, 2010 at 11:13:48 pm

[Bob Cole] "... the AVCHD codec is a concern."

Did they say what their concern was?

AVCHD has been around for a while. Most modern computers and editing software can work with it just fine. AVCHD is based on H.264, the compression technology used by Canon DSLRs & many video cameras.

FCP users typically transcode AVCHD to ProRes on ingest, and other editing apps either transcode it, too, or work with it natively.

The GH2's compression encoding is much improved compared to the previous GH1 model. Among other things, GH2 AVCHD video now includes B-frames, which improves quality.

The GH2 typically records fewer CMOS sensor aliasing & moire artifacts compared to most other popular DSLR cams.

Also, the GH2's CMOS rolling shutter "skew" artifact performance is as good or better than the GH1 (hacked or not) & other DSLRs. In some operating modes, the GH2's skew performance is significantly better than the GH1 and other DSLRs. This has been verified by 3 different testers commenting in this thread (including correctly-done test videos):
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?232220-Gh2-skew

The above are some of the reasons why GH2 1080p24 AVCHD recordings @ 24mb/s can look remarkably good for such a relatively inexpensive camera.

Cheers.

---

http://www.peterdv.com


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Jeremy Cucco
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 26, 2010 at 4:36:23 am

Peter -
Thanks so much for your insight into the Panasonic DSLR.

I record live concert events in excess of 2 hours in length (classical concerts without ability to cut the camera off at regular intervals). It makes for interesting and painful post production sometimes, but the biggest problem I'm having at the moment is the availability of cameras to do this kind of work. DV cams limit me in recording time and the occasional failure of tape. Hard Disc recorders have been a bit of a pain (both logistically for external HD cam systems and due to size and other considerations). At the moment, I'm using smaller Canon handheld solid state cam-corders (prosumer variety).

Yesterday, I went to the Sony Style Store and looked at the A33 as a potential new platform. My wife shoots with Konica Minolta and old-school Minolta DSLRs and SLRs, so I've got a stock-pile of fast lenses to choose from. The sales clerk told me I could record any length video - it was only dependent upon the battery and size of removable media. I bought one on the spot!

Needless to say, when I went to record Christmas morning this morning by setting the camera on a tripod over our shoulders, I was quite dismayed to see the camera shut off after about 10 minutes of recording repeatedly!

So, shame on me for not doing more research, but it turns out that's a pretty hard-and-fast limitation o the A33 (up to 29 minutes under certain circumstances).

Needless to say, the A33 is going back to the store ASAP.

However, on the other hand, I have a small Olympus PEN camera (The EPL1 - micro 4/3s system). Ironically enough, my wife bought me a 40-150 (80-300 35mm equiv) for it for Christmas and was upset that I had bought the Sony just yesterday. Well...based on your right up, and the failure of the Sony, the Olympus and thus the Panasonic (thanks to the interchangeable lenses!) may be the winner! The Olympus is only capable of a 7 minute record time, but if I can get a couple of the Panasonic bodies and use some of the lenses I already have, this would be a HUGE win-win!

Just out of curiosity, do you have any sample videos of raw video footage (or know of any) that may display how the camera handles high dynamic range, compression, motion, etc.?

Thanks so much and happy holidays!

Jeremy


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Richard Harrington
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 26, 2010 at 3:58:59 pm

The Nikon D7000 records for 20 minutes per clip... I would think that would be enough

Richard M. Harrington, PMP

Author: From Still to Motion, Video Made on a Mac, Photoshop for Video, Understanding Adobe Photoshop, Final Cut Studio On the Spot and Motion Graphics with Adobe Creative Suite 5 Studio Techniques


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Peter DeCrescenzo
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 26, 2010 at 7:02:42 pm

[Jeremy Cucco] "... do you have any sample videos of raw video footage (or know of any) that may display how the camera handles high dynamic range, compression, motion, etc.?"

Relatively speaking, there aren't many "raw" (compressed camera-original) video files online because they are so large compared to versions of the files highly-compressed for web viewing.

However, a properly-shot compressed web video can sometimes give a very good indication of a camera's capability. For example, if you haven't already seen it, refer to Emmanuel Pampuri's GH2 video here:
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/280/4370

Emmanuel's video contains quite a range of exposure levels, camera & subject motion, lighting, outdoor & indoor scenery, and about as much skin as a family-oriented venue such as the COW will allow. :-)

As noted in the above post, Vimeo members can download a somewhat less-compressed version of Emmanuel's edit, too, which further hints at what the GH2 is capable of.

I've started uploading some very brief camera-original GH2 ".MTS" files of my own to Vimeo, but I might not have exactly what you're looking for quite yet. My Vimeo channel is at:
http://www.peterdv.com

Also, as I noted earlier in this thread, an NTSC GH2 can record AVCHD 1080p24 video essentially without limit. A NTSC GH2 will continue recording until the memory card is full or the battery dies. A European PAL GH2 is limited to recording AVCHD 1080p24 clips up to 29:29.

When recording very long takes, you might choose to use Panasonic's optional GH2 AC adapter instead of powering the cam with a battery.

Note: The makers of "consumer" video cameras (including the GH2) warn that a power failure during a recording may result in an unusable clip. To help guard against this you might, for example, use a UPS power supply together with a camera's AC adapter. Or, stop & start the recording periodically -- or record with 2 cameras with "offset" start times -- to help insure successful recording of unusually long continuous takes. YMMV.

Cheers.

---

http://www.peterdv.com


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Bob Cole
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 26, 2010 at 7:22:34 pm

[Peter DeCrescenzo] "Note: The makers of "consumer" video cameras (including the GH2) warn that a power failure during a recording may result in an unusable clip. T"

That is a great note of caution! I had never thought of this potential problem with running a non-tape camera off AC. Thanks Peter.

Is this true of most DSLRs? - or, for that matter, is this true of most video cameras which record to cards rather than tape?

Just what we need to add to the kit: heavy UPS units.

Bob C


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Peter DeCrescenzo
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 26, 2010 at 8:23:38 pm

Just to be clear, the caution I mention concerns a complete power failure, as opposed to the camera's internal battery becoming depleted while recording a clip.

Most cameras will end a clip recording gracefully when the cam's battery dies, or at least warn when the battery is about to expire.

But it's when running on AC that a recording clip can be lost as the result of an AC power failure. Likewise, pulling the battery out of a cam while it's recording will likely damage the clip.

Both Panasonic & Sony warn about this in the docs for their AVCHD consumer memory card cams. I just checked, and the user manual for the Canon 60D and Nikon D7000 contain similar warnings.

I suspect there may be some variability in this. That's why I put the "YMMV" at the end of my previous post. Subject to your own testing, etc.

For what it's worth, I just shot a test where I aimed my GH2 at an CU of a television screen displaying an American football game, turned off the cam's LCD (so only the EVF was on) and started it recording. I started with a fully-charged battery. As expected, with an 8GB SDHC card the GH2 recorded for more than 45 minutes and then stopped recording when the card was full. Playback appears "perfect". The battery indicator still shows a "full" charge. The camera is only very, very slightly warm. Probably, with a higher-capacity SDHC card, a GH2 can record for much longer on a single battery charge, subject to your testing.

On a related note: Panasonic distributes a software utility for repairing "damaged" _AVCCAM_ clips for their "pro" video cams. I don't know if this utility can also be used on AVCHD clips, regrets. I also don't know if Canon, Nikon or 3rd parties offer software for repairing damaged clips. I've seen utilities for recovering erased clips, but I haven't researched what's out there for fixing clips damaged by a power failure.

---

http://www.peterdv.com


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Bob Cole
Re: overheating and interviews
on Dec 27, 2010 at 2:47:28 pm

[Peter DeCrescenzo] "Did they say what their concern was?"

Their concerns about AVCHD were "quality" (data rate) & "confusion" (multiple flavors). Thanks for your clarification about the evolution of AVCHD. Those concerns about AVCHD might be based on some earlier versions.

There is so much anecdotal and subjective discussion about codecs. There must (or should) be a website with side-by-side comparisons of the current codecs from different brands, as well as recordings from external devices like the KiPro and Nano Flash, would be informative.

Trade shows commonly feature line-ups of cameras and still lifes or models, along with nice big monitors which show the detail and color the company's cameras create. Nice, but I'd rather see playback of recordings made by those same cameras, interwoven with the live views on the trade show floor.


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Anthony Bari Jr.
Re: overheating and interviews
on Jan 4, 2011 at 1:03:18 am

The 7D was the only major issue I saw that only after keeping the LCD on between takes for long periods.

The LCD and the twin Processors is what makes it act overheat faster than a 5D MK II, (what Canon told me over the phone)
Since, the firmware update that addressed the overheating issues, and turning off the LCD if not shooting.

If you are not using the camera for more than 3mins shut it off. I rather burn battery by switching the camera on/off then having an overheat issue.

*Production*Post-Production*
Apple Certified Instructor (Final Cut Pro 7)
"Semper Fi USMC"


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Malcolm Matusky
Re: overheating and interviews
on Jan 9, 2011 at 6:38:16 pm

I use a 7D and do long interviews (32 gig card) never overheated and I shoot in Arizona. I always use a "battery grip" and never use the internal battery. When batteries drain they generate heat, no vents on the camera means the head adds up inside the camera causing premature shut down. When the batteries are on the outside of the camera body the heat stays outside as well! There are battery adapters with a cable for an external battery if you do not like the 2" rise the battery grip mandates. I prefer the grip.

M

Malcolm


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