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Jello effect: 5D or 7D?

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clyde villegas
Jello effect: 5D or 7D?
on Dec 16, 2010 at 9:33:53 am

Which one has less jello effect, 5D or 7D? Is the difference negligible?

ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus


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Bob Dix
Re: Jello effect: 5D or 7D?
on Dec 20, 2010 at 11:19:53 pm

Clyde,

I presume you mean a slight movement of the pixels on panning.I have used a 5D mark II for 18 months and have noticed this only if very fast panning is done and a poor quality CF card used ,and a non Image stabilized lens in the main, & again I presume the 7d is the same. I have only seen this happen in the early stages of using this camera and never again, probably only in post production and never in the LCD.
Canon Australia advised me that the Canon EF L Lens 70mm-200mm has a horizontal Image Stabilizer that will eliminate this issue in poor panning ? But, we use mainly a 35mm 28-135mm F3.5 IS lens for most travel work, the video and stills have been stunning in 1920 x 1080p

I noticed elsewhere that you are NSTC, we are PAL and the jello only happened when we were shooting at 30fps not 25 fps now as we got a Firmware Upgrade from Canon to do this.But, Peter is right it should not make any difference, he uses a 7D.

Good luck

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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clyde villegas
Re: Jello effect: 5D or 7D?
on Dec 21, 2010 at 9:42:53 am

Hi Bob,

Yes, you are right. I'm talking about the skewing of the image. I can pan slowly to prevent image skewing. But my concern is more on subjects that move fast. Like if an actor is running or worse, if a speeding bus enters the frame. If the 7D or 5D doesn't have problem on those, that will be great! I'm looking into using 50mm f1.4 or f1.8 lens because the wider aperture will blur my background better. What is your experience on a 50mm 1.4 or 1.8 lens on a 7D? Thanks a lot, Bob.

ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus


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Bob Dix
Re: Jello effect: 5D or 7D?
on Dec 21, 2010 at 11:07:01 pm

Hi Clyde,
As our work is mainly travel we do not use a 1.4 or 1.8 lens for extra light and depth of field, although we have used a 1.2L Series Canon previously. The ability of this camera 5D to alter the ISO settings removes the need for ultra fast lens.Regardless of the renowned quality of 50-55 mm lens it is just not practical to use these as we need to get into the subject matter and use an EF 28-135 mm Canon F/3.5-5.6 IS USM See Low level clips for ART Displays shot with a Canon Fish-Eye lens and canon 24-105mm EF ISM IS Lens http://www.stevendix.com/2009/.

You cannot fault the performance of these slow lens for indoor fashion shows either. I had a tram entering into frame at speed in a Christchuch NZ shoot and had no issues. On the 5D mark II because of the 35mm sensor it would be easy to blur the background but, maybe not,on the 7D, as it has a APS Sensor.I recommemnd you set the speed of the shutter at 1/50 sec for the best results with HD Video, it will be smooth. Remember the 5D has a Cinema quality 35mm sensor , the 7D has not, a big aperture on a 5D will work better than a 7D to blur the background anyday, the EF lens for the 5D cannot be used on the 7D.

Good luck.

PS . I believe that if you run the cameras with the correct shutter speed you should not experience your "jelloo" effect. It is, in the main the size of the sensor that allows you to get the range in the depth of field, and not the lens aperture.Although in a negative 35mm film camera without the huge range of the ISO settings (ISO 50-ISO 25600(H2), ISO 100-3200 is set automatically if needed in the 5D , it would.

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Bob Dix
Re: Jello effect: 5D or 7D?
on Dec 22, 2010 at 10:08:52 pm

Slight error, a EF lens will work on the 7D but, at x 1.6 as on our 30D thereby reducing the wide angle due to smaller sensor.

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Anthony Bari Jr.
Re: Jello effect: 5D or 7D?
on Jan 4, 2011 at 4:57:20 am

he best thing to do to avoid the Rolling Shutter issues is to do slow camera movements.
Avoid fast pans and tilts, the CMOS sensors don't work well with fast movements.

You can also,
use the Rolling Shutter Plugin to adjust any footage already shot.

here is the link
http://www.coremelt.com/products/lock-and-load/rolling-shutter-reduction.ht...

try the free trial.

*Production*Post-Production*
Apple Certified Instructor (Final Cut Pro 7)
"Semper Fi USMC"


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Thomas Morter-Laing
Re: Jello effect: 5D or 7D?
on Jan 4, 2011 at 3:08:53 pm

Both being CMOS, the rolling shutter will affect bother cameras fairly equally. The difference in sensor size is also reasonably negligible according to the Creative Cow podcasts and a few articles- it doesn't work anything like 35mm film, apparently that's actually a bit of a selling gimmick, and I've read it's not quite true. The reason for this is that 35mm film recorded the film frames onto the entirety of the film stock (ie the entire 35mm piece of film is exposed), but a 35mm sensor works differently and only a portion of the sensor is actually used. Crop factor is a consideration, and the 5D MK2's sensor being bigger has inherent advantages, such as better low light capabilities and shallow depth of field, but I dont think its accurate to compare it to 35mm film, because it's still only 1920x1080 and thats how much of the sensor is being used regardless.

Also an f1.8 50mm prime is a great lens for shallow depth of field without making the image too grainy. I personally think the 1.4 is a little overkill- in DSLR terms, 1.4 means the nose of a subject can be in focus and their eyes aren't, so unless you want depth of field that shallow for some reason, its probably worth saving the money.

:D
Tom Morter-Laing
Freelance Editor
Certified Apple Product Proffessional, 2010
http://www.depictproductions.co.uk

Sony Z5, with Rode NTG2.
iMac 27" intel i7 2.93GHz, 12GB RAM, ATI HD5750 [1GB GDDR5], 2TB Int. SATA with 2TB External HDD; (FW800), with Elgato Turbo H264HD.





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clyde villegas
Re: Jello effect: 5D or 7D?
on Jan 5, 2011 at 12:00:36 am

Thomas, do I get this correctly? If both 7d and 5d use 1920x1080 pixels in their sensors for video, then a larger surface area on the sensor will be used in the 5D, which means that even if both cameras don't utilize the whole sensor, the 5D utilizes a bigger surface area than the 7D. This is true if both have the same size of pixels. Wait, do they have the same size of pixels?

ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus


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Bob Dix
Re: Jello effect: 5D or 7D?
on Jan 7, 2011 at 10:58:49 pm

Clyde,

Ask Canon Technical Services about that question, the 5D has a 35mm Sensor (the same size as film for cinemas) not APS as on the 7D ,it has a 1.6 times prime lens magnification. , it is about 3 times the size ot the 7D and 10 times the size of a Video Camcorder at 1/3 ". That is why rhe depth of field is so impressive, and extended ISO range and if set on auto I hardly need to resort to extra lighting in poor light situations.

Check this out, shot on a 5D mark II http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2326

Cut & paste the above link into your Windows address bar >

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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