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Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?

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Claus Frederiksen
Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 5, 2010 at 11:58:31 am

Hi,

I´m getting a 5D next week. For video use. I have access to used/old Canon lenses from press photographer, as I want my iris to be manual. But - I know nothing about the do´s and don´t when buying lenses to a 5D, for video use. Only thing Im sure about, is that I want my iris to be "the good old fashion one" - and not the build in.

Anyone?

Kind regards from Denmark,

Claus Frederiksen
http://www.frederiksenproductions.dk


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Fred Robinson
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 5, 2010 at 7:29:41 pm

Check out this similar thread...

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/280/3541

I'd recommend the 50mm f1.4.
But, of course, it depends on what you are mainly going to be shooting.


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Bob Dix
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 6, 2010 at 4:40:26 am

Hi Claus,
We have been using a 5D mark II for 18 months, the 24-70 F2.8 mm L seriies lens Ef Pro is too heavy and not image stablised.Great for stills. We have used a 28-135mm Image stabilised lens EF great for wide angle and you can get in far enough for travel stuff. If you do not use a tripod and no image stablization you will have movement problems. But, what stunning video and stills.


It has become a prime lens for us, we used to use 35-350mm it is just not needed.Run the 5d at 1/50 sec on PAL 25fps in video exposere mode and you cannot go wrong, But, you will need a stereo mike, we use a RODE X/Y Condensor other wise you will pick up IS noise etc.

Ps., You will need a i7 Quad Core 64 bit computer with Raid 0 plus approved video card , see Adobe for minimum requirements for editing H.264 mov files at 1920 x 1080p from this camera other wise you are going to have editing issues ??????????

You do not need a fast lens on this camera as the ISO setting can be set at automatic , and believe me you do not need additional lights to do fashion or art galleries, the result is broadcast quality.

As this camera runs at 38.5 MB/s you will need a SanDisk or equivalent CF card at 45-60MB/s UDMA for 1080P for smooth running.

Incidentally all the Canon Lens can be manually adjusted, I like you ,like the "old way' of doing things like depth of field etc.But, setting the camera to Shutter Priority @ 1/50sec is the only way to go for smoothist video.http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2326
Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Claus Frederiksen
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 6, 2010 at 8:31:29 am

Bob,

Thank you very much. Extremely helpfull. But, hvor do you ajust the iris/aperture on that lens?

Fred, Brilliant link. Thank you...

Kind regards from Denmark,

Claus Frederiksen
http://www.frederiksenproductions.dk


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Bob Dix
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 6, 2010 at 11:07:05 am

Hi Claus,

The lens Canon EF 28-135mm F3.5-5.6 IS USM can be set in AV : Aperture-Priority AE mode from the camera, electronically very effectively. You set the desired aperture and the camera sets the shutter speed automatically. Bear in mind that the ISO speed can be set automatically 100-3200 and also expandable to ISO 25800 (HZ).

I must stress that you should attempt to maintain the shutter at 1/50,1/60 or 1/125 sec for smooth operation.As the CMOS sensor of this camera is some 10 times the size of a consumer camcorder and may be 3 times the size of a 3 CCD Pro camcorder and generates hugh H.264 mov clips in 1920 x1080p High definition movie Mode. And there may be some "pixel shift at higher speeds".

All operations for the camera can be set manually.

You would be advised to check out all the reviews from Canon and elsewhere for further information.

As I mainly do still images , this is the camera for me. And it does professional HD video, but, If I was doing pure video I would choose one of Canon's Professional Video cameras because of the advantages of motorised zoom and better handling.etc.

Regardless of that I love using the 5D Mark II, especially for its intercahngeable lens system and amazing exposure range.
The stills are as good as or better than Hasselblad's medium format ?

The video in PAL is equvalent or better than broadcast in Australia.

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Claus Frederiksen
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 6, 2010 at 12:00:19 pm

Hi Bob,

I need the camera for video, 98% of the time. I have seen some stuff on vimeo and on TV, shot on that camera that was unbelievable. "House" and "24"in the US, is entirely shot with that camera. Loads of high end commercials in Europe also. Problem with "traditional video cameras is, well - they look like video. Even after some great color grading etc. I currently work with the 2100e P2 1080i from Panasonic. Great camera, but very much "video". I need something that will give me a lot more DOF, and the option of putting better lenses on - for the that "film look"...

I will edit, and transcode, in Pro Ress!

The reason for manual iris, is because I need to be able to change it - fast. Im looking at Zacuto and Cavison rigs as we speak, for the 5D. Lenses to morrow :-)

Kind regards from Denmark,

Claus Frederiksen
http://www.frederiksenproductions.dk


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Bob Dix
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 6, 2010 at 12:53:02 pm

I agree , I have seen "HOUSE" and yes the 35mm sensor as per 35 mm film, on the 5D Mark II will give you the movie look with large apertures, shallow depth of field which is hard to capture with a 1/4 inch or 1/3 inch sensors on Pro Camcorders, and yes the colour is sensational.

Your background in pro production gives you an edge in this area , in House the hand held video , I presume using IS Canon Lens in delicate surgery is impressive. And of course if you do not focus manually there is no AUTO.
See some of the low level video shot on my son's 5D mark II with a Canon Fish -Eye lens and other.In Korea, Hong Kong etc using iMovie would you believe ?

http://www.stevendix.com/2009/

Greetings from Down Under, How is the snow ?
Bob

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Claus Frederiksen
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 6, 2010 at 1:03:49 pm

Hi Bob,

I seen you are just as impressed by the quality as me, on those 5D :-). Cool stuff from your sons 5D...

I bumped into this, - not long ago. That one, and this one her; did the trick for me. I just got to have a 5D :-)

Snow? It´s all over the place - and more is coming. But its nice, I like it. And light this time of year, up here in northern europa, is just breathtaking sometimes...

Kind regards from Denmark,

Claus Frederiksen
http://www.frederiksenproductions.dk


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Bob Dix
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 7, 2010 at 12:15:50 am

I agree stunning Vimeo video clip.

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Aleksander Ødegård
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 6, 2010 at 1:16:41 pm

Iris is rapidly changed with the big wheel on the rear of the camera (next to the lcd screen).
Changing aperture while shooting is a bad idea. Traditional video cameras change aperture smoothly, while dslr´s doesnt. Try for yourself and you´ll see.

I dont agree with the suggestion of shooting with aperture priority or any other kind of auto/semi-auto mode.
I always shoot in fully manual mode, no matter what camera I use.
Shooting with dslr´s is sort of going back to the ways of shooting film. They are not meant for point-and-shoot like video cameras.

I would suggest the following lenses:
16-34/17-35 mm canon L series f2.8
50mm 1.2/1.4/1.8 depending on budget.
24-70mm 2.8 L series.
These lenses would cover most needs and works well without IS if you got a good tripod and hand held rig, if you handle them correctly.

If you would like to talk it over in more detail, it would be easier for me to explain in norwegian rather than english.
Feel free to send me an email at aleksander(att)fortfilm.com

Aleksander Ødegård
http://www.fortfilm.com


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Claus Frederiksen
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 6, 2010 at 1:25:11 pm

Aleksander. Mange tak - det var fedt og meget brugbart!

:-)

Kind regards from Denmark,

Claus Frederiksen
http://www.frederiksenproductions.dk


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Morten Raarup
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 7, 2010 at 12:57:10 pm

Hej Claus

You will also need a 70-200 f2.8 (IS is nice) I use 24-70 most of the time, but 70 mm is often to small to clouse ups. I also have 35 mm. and 85 primelense f. 1.4 but is slow to change lenses if you also uses a followfocus. And the 70-200 so to heavy its needs extra support.

Morten Raarup
On Off Line
Copenhagen, Denmark

Sony PDW-F800, AVID Symphony Nitris, FCP 7


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Claus Frederiksen
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 23, 2010 at 12:34:48 pm

Morten,

Fremragende - tak. Må jeg komme forbi en dag jeg er i Kbh? :-)

Brillant - Can come and see? The next time I´m in Copenhagen?

Kind regards from Denmark,

Claus Frederiksen
http://www.frederiksenproductions.dk


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Morten Raarup
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 25, 2010 at 10:13:38 pm

You are very welcome!

Morten Raarup
On Off Line
Copenhagen, Denmark

Sony PDW-F800, AVID Symphony Nitris, FCP 7


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Bob Dix
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 6, 2010 at 9:21:39 pm

Hi Aleksander,

You may be able to teach some of our Australian producers/videoographers a thing or two. I bet the computers at the Norweigian Broadcasting Commision are a help with the h.264mov clips from the Canon. It must be magic in Oslo and Bergen this time of year ?

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Aleksander Ødegård
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 6, 2010 at 11:23:16 pm

Hi, Bob.
Given the fact that I´ve only been in the business for about 1 1/2 years, I really hope my/your colleagues in Australia know better than me ;)

I´ve actually never edited h.264 on the final cut-setup they have at NRK (norwegian broadcast corporation) as they only use pdw700/530 (IMX 625/50 50mb/s, in-camera down scaling from 422hd to sd), and sometimes ex3/xf305 on smaller productions.
On the other hand, editing h.264 is working beautifully on my fcp-setup when transcoding with mpeg streamclip, and recently the log and transfer plug-in.

Getting back to topic: I would still recommend starting out with a simple 3-lens kit consisting of a wide angle zoom, about a 50mm prime and a mid-range zoom. This lens kit should give you a large enough variety of focal lengths for most "average" situations. If you have the cash (and need), adding the 70-200mm f2.8 L IS would get you even closer.
It´s important tho, to think ahead when buying lenses with the regard of what gear you will be using to add neutral density. The canon 24-70mm will probably not work that well with an matte box because you would have to slide it back and forth on the rods as you change your focal length (the 24-70mm changes its physical seize while adjusting focal length). But that´s another discussion..

Aleksander Ødegård
http://www.fortfilm.com


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Bob Dix
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 7, 2010 at 12:06:29 am

Hi Aleksander,

I understand where you are coming from, we have a large choice of lens for film Canons, but, we travelled light with the 5d Mark II into Tibet, China, Egypt ,New Zealand and Lord Howe Island recently and the EF 28-135mm F/3.5 IS hand held, was the work horse. I agree the 70-200mm EF IS would have been an advantage at certain times because of, according to Canon , it's horizontal stablization, hand held. Ie.,fast horizontal panning was causing some pixel movement ?)

But, it is Claus from Denmark who wanted a bit of info re video lens for this camera.We have been with Canon equipoment for over 25 years and I can get a bit biased. I have videoed to North Cape ?your country using a Panasonic 3 CCD, great voyage.

I used a Hasselblad ( Now worth the price of a small car)for 15 years made near you in Goteborg, Sweden

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Claus Frederiksen
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 7, 2010 at 8:59:41 am

Don´t use the H.264 file for edit - It was was not made for that purpose. Takes to much procession power and its´no god for browsing in the viewer. Go for Pro Ress - much better and actually intended for editing in HD...!

Kind regards from Denmark,

Claus Frederiksen
http://www.frederiksenproductions.dk


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Keith Pratt
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 11, 2010 at 6:53:30 pm

Claus Frederiksen: "I have access to used/old Canon lenses from press photographer, as I want my iris to be manual."

They're not FD lenses are they? The advice is to steer clear of FD lenses with EOS bodies as they necessitate use of an optical adaptor.

Bob Dix: "As this camera runs at 38.5 MB/s you will need a SanDisk or equivalent CF card at 45-60MB/s UDMA for 1080P for smooth running."

You're mixing up MB/s and Mb/s (megabytes and megabits). Canon video runs at around 40Mb/s, which is 5MB/s.

Claus Frederiksen: ""House" and "24"in the US, is entirely shot with that camera"

It's being used for a lot of music videos and fair bit of commercials work, but House was a one-episode test and as far as I'm aware it's only the background plates for car shots that have been shot on DSLRs for 24. The issues with aliasing, mushiness and infrastructural limitations have stopped this generation of DSLRs from properly making it to primetime.


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Bob Dix
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 11, 2010 at 11:06:12 pm

Hi Keith,

You are right of course•
1920 x 1080 (16:9) up to 12 mins (Quicktime 1080p H.264; 38.6 Mbits/sec)
• 640 x 480 (4:3) up to 24 mins (Quicktime 480p H.264; 17.3 Mbits/sec)
• Max file size 4 GB
• Quicktime MOV format (H.264 video, PCM sound)
• 30 fps
We did try a slower card SanDisk Ultra II and the camera objected

and your advice to Claus is correct too, and the old lens are not stablized.

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Tony Davies Patrick
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 13, 2010 at 10:45:55 am

There are no set lenses that you 'must' use for video; any lenses in the Canon line-up, or in fact almost any lens (with an adapter) from Nikon, Pentax, Contax, Leica etc will do - it all depends on what your subject is.

Fast lenses are in vogue for the 5D Mark II when used in video mode, and although I do own a rack of extreme-fast lenses from Canon and Nikon they are not always needed.

For filming subjects at extreme low light-levels and when you require narrow depth of field, a lens such as the 24mm f/1.4, or 50mm f/1.2 or 200mm f/1.8 might be the best optics to use; but if you are filming landscapes in that same low light- you will need to stop those same lenses down to smaller aperture in the f/5.6-f/11 region to maintain a decent DOF - so a 24mm f/3.5; 50mm f/2 or 200mm f/4 will work just as well - plus the fact that they will be less in weight and price.

If you have plenty of time on your hands, then a prime fixed aperture lens often the tools for the job, but if you are constantly changing angles and subjects within a short time frame, then zoom lenses are the best option.

I prefer fast zooms, and have found for most video subjects f/2.8 is a good maximum aperture - so 17-35mm, 16-35mm, 24-70mm, 28-70mm, 70-200mm, 80-200mm f/2.8 lenses work very well for both stills and video. If you are mainly working in decent light and require medium-small apertures fro more DOF, then the slower zoom lenses will work just as well.

For run-and-gun situations or when you are constantly being faced with fast-changing subjects at short or long ranges when it is impossible to change lenses, the all-in-one quality zooms such as Canon 28-300mm L or 35-350mm L can be your saviour.

A lot has been discussed about using IS lenses for video, and it certainly does help in some situations, but I've found that using IS on a Canon XL2 or XL-H1 video camera fitted with 20X lenses compared to a 5D fitted with EOS IS lenses does not relate to the same type of filming or results.

Most of the time I turn off the IS mode on all my lenses when shooting video with a 5D and much prefer to either use a tripod or steadycam with the IS turned off.

The vital thing that stumps most photographers who use the 5D in video mode is camera-shake. I often use a specially adapted Hasselblad magnifying eye-piece clipped to the live-view screen of the 5D and this does help a lot for both manual focus and to maintain good framing; but I also use a special shoulder & waist brace to keep everything rock-steady when I am filming without a tripod.

Without a doubt, one of the most important extra items that I use for filming handheld with the 5D over uneven terrain is my steadicam. Match a 5D Mark II + steadicam + wide angle zoom lens, and you will be amazed at how smooth your video footage can be.

So try to understand how to use your 5D Mark II in video mode first, and above all learn how to keep it steady, and then choose the lenses which fit your subject matter.

GlobetrotterWorld
http://www.NIKON.me.uk
http://www.CanonLens.co.uk


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Claus Frederiksen
Re: Buying a 5D - but what lenses should I get for video?
on Dec 23, 2010 at 12:31:37 pm

Tony, Keith, Bob - brilliant answers. Thank you!!

I´ve been shooting for commercials and television for almost 20 years on video and 16mm. And I don´t want/don´t like stabilized lenses. I try to use a good tripod/head and/or a high quality rig for handheld, instead ;-). Unless I want that "shaky look" from doing handheld without stabilizing lenses etc.

Again, absolutely brilliant answers. Very useful for a guy like me, who are about to enter the DSLR world, in a country where DSLR shooting is very limited. Good to get the facts right about "House" etc. Gives a better perspective, when looking for the right gear.

Most of my shooting with the 5D, will be the kind of stuff where we have plenty of time. But because of your advise, I will get a all-in-one quality zoom lens as well.

Merry Christmas... :-)

Kind regards from Denmark,

Claus Frederiksen
http://www.frederiksenproductions.dk


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