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Transcoding 5D for PC

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ryan loetscher
Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 1, 2010 at 4:57:38 pm

So up until this point, I've been converting to prores and editing on FCP. However I'm having to cut a certain project on a different system... CS3 on a PC. I haven't edited on PC since I've been a "pro", so my knowledge isn't as good.

It seems everything I read is pointing toward Cineform... but are they're any other suggestions? Any free stuff? What's the prores equivalent in PC.



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Peter Burger
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 1, 2010 at 8:45:33 pm

I'm working with AVID's DNxHD codec quite a time. A lot of people say, that it is sort of THE Prores equivalent. Since I work only on windows, I can't confirm that. But it is definitly a very good codec. And it's free.
Haven't tried Cineform yet, but from what I read (especially here on CC), it is a great codec as well.

HTH


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Bob Dix
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 2, 2010 at 12:10:41 am

If you want somthing really simple> Export to Movie> Save as Microsoft avi, and check "Un-compressed" This should take the H.264mov files to a more editable format HDV/mpeg-2 then reintroduce onto the timeline as a different project.Or, take the h.264 mov files ie., HD 1920 x 1080i into a simple program like Premiere Elements 4 which easliy handles h.264mov, render clips on timeline and do the same as above. Incidentally, I believe CS5 handles it very well as a 64bit i7 set up, CS3 is only 32 bit ? And you might need a bigger computer ? The H.264 mov files out of the Canon 5D mark II are difficult to edit , we have been doing it for 18 months, the images/video are remarkable.

Good luck.

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Peter Burger
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 2, 2010 at 6:59:07 am

Bob,

Is there an advantage in your method compared to transcoding the files with - say - MPEG Streamclip? The only improvement I see, is in not having to install another codec. But maybe I missed something.

I find Premiere (at least in the 32bit CS3 Version) a whole lot slower. And the batch list of MPEG Streamclip is a great tool, if you have to transcode a couple of clips.


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Bob Dix
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 2, 2010 at 8:38:46 am

Not that I know of, but, it works here, just worth a try. But, we are using an XEON Workstation Quad Core i7 (64 bit), 24hgb Ram and Nvidia Quadro FX3800 with 1Tb Drives and Raid 0,it has revitalised the old software,(the blu-ray is very good) transcoding on the Pentium 4. 3.2 Ghz with hyper threading was a pain with only 2GB Ram . CS5 will come shortly when they get the bugs out it, they might have with the up-grade ?

Whatever you do Peter with your German knowhow,(AH, I can just taste the beer from here) I hope you are successful, as Canon's H.264mov files are difficult and rendering smooths out the timeline to work on easily.

With blu-ray you will end up with H.264 or mpeg-2, you choose, or transfer to Pro tape HDV is also impressive at 1440 x 1080i to anamorphic 1920 x 1080i using the right camcorder for a 16:9 Widescreen TV presentation.

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Peter Burger
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 2, 2010 at 9:20:29 am

Thanks Bob! I was just curious! When I was "overrun" with 5D MkII footage about a year ago, I did actually curse a lot. H.264 in 30fps! in a PAL country! Not cool ;-)
Had to edit a 20min. short on an old Windows PC with CS3 instead of AVID which I prefer. It was a pain! I swore to myself: NEVER EVER AGAIN DSLR!
Well... I bought a T2i myself, my working partner a 7D :-) and on some projects I still work with Premiere CS3 but on a faster machine.

Did so much testing and transcoding into various formats, but always avoided (I actually don't know why) uncompressed AVI. I ended up, using DNxHD, which I find, is a very good and stable solution. So I was curious, what the benefits are with uncompressed AVI.

Thanks for your input especially concerning BluRays!

Cheers to Australia! Hope to be able to get there some day. I'll bring beer ;-)
All the best!


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Bob Dix
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 2, 2010 at 10:00:13 am

That is great, the free 2.0.7 and 2.0.8 Firmware upgrades from Canon's Web site change your speed in the 5D Mark II to 25fps as we are in Australia PAL. You have probably installed them, as all our broadcast is 25fps. It was a pain but, it now works better than a Swiss clock and no need to change speed in Premiere Pro from 30fps to 25fps. I found Microsoft avi, transcoded in would you believe Premiere Elements 4 and uncompressed gave me a very workable avi high definition at 1440 x 1080i file back into Premiere Pro for final editing and Export to Pro Tape as an anamorphic 1920 x 1080i transfer in a pixel shift technology Canon and or m2t file saved to be used for blu-ray.

Ah, I still remember the Hofbrau House in Munich , my spelling is probably not right. I was using a Canon EX1 Hi-8 in those days.

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Peter Burger
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 2, 2010 at 10:28:51 am

My "first encounter" with MkII footage was before the update, so - as you wrote - very painful!
Fortunately that issue is out of the way right now with (almost) all the DSLRs being able to shoot PAL and 24p.

You will laugh, but although I've been living my 30+ years in Munich, I've never been to the Hofbräu Haus... But, yes, I do own a lederhos'n - even though I just wear it (if at all) on Oktoberfest ;-)

All the best!


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ryan loetscher
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 2, 2010 at 5:57:58 pm

Well, Bob, I appreciate the input, but I don't know if that's really the right solution. Regardless of rendering, I'd never edit with an h.264 native file. Really bad for color correcting and compositing. And exporting from a timeline for conversations is kind of a ridiculous workflow. I was thinking about mpeg streamclip, but I hadn't thought about uncompressed, it might be too big of a file for our storage... and I'm not upgrading anything at this point.

Since I don't have avid, so far it sounds like cineform might be my best option. I could always to DVCproHD... any thoughts on that?



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Peter Burger
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 2, 2010 at 7:44:26 pm

You can download the DNxHD codec for free from the Avid site.


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ryan loetscher
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 2, 2010 at 7:45:47 pm

Is it only useable in Avid though?



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Peter Burger
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 2, 2010 at 7:58:55 pm

No, you can use it in any program. I use it a lot with Premiere and AE.


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Bob Dix
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 3, 2010 at 12:55:16 am

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/280/568


Have a look at that ?

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Peter Burger
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 3, 2010 at 9:04:25 am

Yes, gamma shift is a bit of an issue. Sorry, I should have mentioned that! So, thanks Bob, for throwing it in!

I personally find the transcoded files even more pleasing, because they are a bit less contrasty than the originals, which is IMHO a good thing, since the Canons are (also IMHO) way over with contrast.
And since no picture information is lost in transcoding, you can easily reintroduce contrast in post.

Maybe someone with more knowledge about codecs/transcoding will comment and clarify things.


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Bob Dix
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 2, 2010 at 11:13:41 pm

Hi Ryan

I never edit with H.264,but, I do render it to change the codec to Microsoft avi(uncompressed) and yes the files are big, but, when introduced into Premiere Pro it runs smoothly. I know it is a round about way of working but, it works. I believe CS5 will run it easily

http://terrywhite.com/techblog/archives/5354

http://tv.adobe.com/watch/short-and-suite/working-with-hdslr-footage-in-pre...
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/short-and-suite/working-with-hdslr-footage-in-pre...
Have a look at the above?
Yes, a DVCPRO-HD unit would be nice,as I would have to Export to a Hard drive to get it to a normal TV with HDMI or go to blu-ray, I prefer to stay with Pro tape for the time being.

See Peter's comments re mpeg streamclip

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Peter Burger
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 3, 2010 at 9:44:03 pm

Bob, do you encode Blu Rays with Premiere/Media Encoder?
If yes, would you mind, sharing your settings? That would be great! Thanks in advance!
(Edit: What I mean: Which max/min/target bitrates do you recommend with Premiere/Media Encoder/Encore. I have very little experience in Blu Ray encoding)


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Bob Dix
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 3, 2010 at 10:58:08 pm

Hi Peter,
I only use Premiere Elements 4 for this as it is so simple.

1. The completed edited timeline from Premiere Pro (saved) is Imported into Premiere Elements 4 " as is Avi "(1440 x 1080i)Anamorphic not 1920 x 1080i as I use the Cineform Codec for HDV in Premiere Pro 1.5.1 or the Saved m2t file Ex Export to Tape from PP.

2. Imported on to the timeline in PE4 >SHARE> A window will open, either DVD or Blu-RAY. WHICH HAS 2 SETTINGS EITHER a H.264 OR MPEG-2.
Now using H.264 will give the same quality as mpeg-2 but, will compress the size so that more can be saved on say a 25GB BD-R TDK Disc. I think you could drop 60 minutes at least onto the disc, one project was 35 minutes the other 55 minutes. The cost per disc TDK Single Layer is about 7 EURO. The cost of going to tape on a SonyDigital MASTER HDV/DVCAM PHDVM-63DM is about 25 EURO.

Click allow to fit to disk with mpeg-2 will probably take about 51 minutes for a 25 minute production. However, h.264 @ same size may take 3 hours (not fit to disc)? Unless I activated the wrong command. Both, looked identical in quality. We have produced 5 mpeg-2/HDV this way (no issues)as we mainly go to Tape. This was for archiving purposes. When we go to CS5 we will use ENCORE.

I believe in CS5 Premiere Pro you must use ENCORE ?

I don't know if you have noticed , but,all the Adobe programs speak to each other, if you change something in Photoshop, it changes the colour , brightness etc and visa versa in Premiere. And the codecs are easily read between Premiere Elements and Premiere Pro ?

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Peter Burger
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 3, 2010 at 11:19:34 pm

Thanks, Bob! Much appreciated!

I have to produce a BluRay for a client (which I never did before, since most of the time I work for web and DVD projects), so your input is of extreme value to me.
I'll definitly give Elements a look, sounds really simple.

So, thanks again and all the best to you!
Greetings to Australia!


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Bob Dix
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 3, 2010 at 11:26:21 pm

Peter,

You will have snow for XMAS I believe.We have deep fog on top of the mountain here.

If you have CS3 still , I would imagine you will have no problems ?

Bob

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Peter Burger
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 3, 2010 at 11:39:08 pm

Thanks to your input, I will fight my way through ;-)
We've got snow already, hopefully it'll stay 'til X-Mas.

BTW: Wasn't aware, that even "small" Elements is capable of communicating with the other Adobe programs. I really adore this feature and use it a lot with PS, AE and PPro, since I do most of titling and colour correction in AE. One big reason for me to edit some projects with Premiere rather than Avid.


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Bob Dix
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 4, 2010 at 12:48:21 am

Check out version comparisons, they do not cost much


http://www.adobe.com/ap/products/premiereel/upgrade/

As I said I am still using 4 only for transcoding

Regards, Bob

My son runs a company Markad doing roughly what you do? Separate from his art company http://www.stevendix.com/2009/index.php/
The weird stuff out of Hong Kong was shot on a Canon 5D mark II using Canon's Fish -Eye lens Ie., in You-Tube clip.

I do a lot of his art event stills and video in Australia but, he does all overseas.

He uses Final Cut Pro, but has had rendering problems with H.264 in it, and now uses iMovie which is amateur version to better effect, but, does not do blu-ray, incidentally a DVD Standard Digital 576i burnt from a High definition timeline in Premiere Pro can look pretty good ?

Der australische Kuenstler, I do not know where he got his German from ?

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Peter Burger
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 4, 2010 at 5:25:47 pm

I think I'll stick with MPEG Streamclip and DNxHD for the time being. But if I fail in BluRay encoding with CS3, I'll defintly take a closer look at Elements since it's not exy (that's the right Australian term, isn't it?).
For the two or three times a year, I'd have to produce BluRay, I'll definitly not buy a more elaborate/expensive program, if Elements is easy to work with and gives me adequate results.

So, thanks for all your advise! It's always fine to exchange thoughts with a pragmatist, since I'm one myself.

Took a look at your son's website! Very cool! I wish, I can "do" a bit more art in future. Had to neglect it the last couple of years for business... But maybe... 2011... who knows?

All the best!


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Bob Dix
Re: Transcoding 5D for PC
on Dec 4, 2010 at 9:12:33 pm

You are right, not"sexy"

Thanks,

Bob

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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