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Where does 5D video fit in broadcast spec?

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Graeme Duane
Where does 5D video fit in broadcast spec?
on Jan 27, 2010 at 6:59:18 am

Can anyone shed light onto where video shot on a 5D fits in the HD standards tabled by broadcasters. We have 7 f900R cameras, and I ran sample footage from a 5D and footage from a f900R onto a HD monitor, side by side. Shot the same day, same subject.

I have to say that I was quite surprised by the result. The 5D footage was sharper and richer, but obviously the compression could be an issue for mpeg output when it goes to broadcast.

Has anyone heard any news of whether this format is "accepted" as full HD?


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James Hilton
Re: Where does 5D video fit in broadcast spec?
on Jan 27, 2010 at 10:37:27 am

There is an interesting report from Alan Roberts who assessed the performance of the 5D mk2 for the BBC here (see #39): http://thebrownings.name/WHP034/

The conclusion seems to be it has too much aliasing (no doubt due to the way it down converts the resolution to 1080p, it just throws away lines of info from the sensor instead of resizing.

I'm not sure if it is the done thing to refer to another forum from here, but check out http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eos-5d-mk-ii-hd/ as there is along discussion on there about the report by Alan Roberts.

Conclusions from other users I have talked to or read comments from can be summed in this rather long sentence I guess: Video looks impressive when played back on an HD monitor, but it doesn't hold up too well in post, and falls down further during (often poor) recompression at point of broadcast'.

I am considering a 5D mk2 to replace my 5d mk1 as it is on its last legs, so the video quality is of interest, but I will mostly use it for stills. I’m as a result interested to hear opinions on here of people who own one already.

Another issue I see is the 50mbit minimum standard lots of broadcasters are gunning for, the 5d is below that. Also Canon have not set a date for the release of the updated firmware to give users 24p, 25p frame rates etc. It wouldn’t surprise me if it didn’t end up happening, but I hope for all users who already own one that it does!

Maybe a firmware hack (e.g. magic lantern) can increase the bit rate higher, but that is not certain!

It is a lot of camera for the money though!


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Hunter Mossman
Re: Where does 5D video fit in broadcast spec?
on Jan 30, 2010 at 11:31:12 pm

Will the numbers match up? No. Will the broadcast world use it anyway? Well just look at the opening for SNL. Shot on a 5DMII I believe. In instances where the 35mm DOF and small camera rigging ability's are a plus Many networks are still open to the idea. It's another tool in our box.

Hunter Mossman
Director of Photography
http://www.huntermossman.com


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Valeriu Campan
Re: Where does 5D video fit in broadcast spec? BUY or SELL
on Feb 4, 2010 at 9:33:12 am

If you have the hottest program that anyone would like to BUY, the BBC techno boffins will be silenced by the management with no problems, even you shot it an a phone camera. If you want to SELL it, any network can provide zillions of issues, technical specs beyond anyone's wildest dreams of perfection, twist your arm until you will be happy to pay them to broadcast it.


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Robert Mueller
Re: Where does 5D video fit in broadcast spec?
on Feb 4, 2010 at 7:56:11 am

Although the 5D has problems with aliasing and the footage is not very "robust" in color correction, the 5D Mark2 is used for shots where this is not an issue. For example interviews or lowlight situations. Since the final master is often XDCam, not many people care where the original footage came from, as long as it looks good. And often it looks really good :-)


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Eric Hansen
Re: Where does 5D video fit in broadcast spec?
on Feb 5, 2010 at 4:29:05 am

Graeme wrote: I ran sample footage from a 5D and footage from a f900R onto a HD monitor, side by side. Shot the same day, same subject.

were you playing this live via the HDMI output on the 5D, or were you playing back from the CF card? if it was live, then you were bypassing the H.264 compression.

the artifacting can be minimized if you shoot objects with a shallow depth of field, or things that don't have straight lines. interviews work well if you throw the background out of focus. if you play to the cameras strengths, you can get it past the broadcasters. just give them a ProRes HQ file (or HDCAM tape) and tell them you shot an F900 with a Macro lens and challenge them to prove you otherwise.

btw, i've heard the 50Mb "rule" too and it confuses the heck out of me. using an extreme example, that would mean footage from a Sony F35 delivered on a 45Mb Blu-Ray is unacceptable, but Uncompressed SD from a Umatic tape is acceptable. the bitrate means nothing. its just something that they can quantify, and thus accept or reject based on a number. whereas the quality of the cinematography can't be quantified.

e

Eric Hansen - The Audio Visual Plumber - http://www.avplumber.com


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Graeme Duane
Re: Where does 5D video fit in broadcast spec?
on Feb 5, 2010 at 6:14:26 am

I played both the f900 footage and the 5D footage back having "Pro-resed" both to HQ. I hear you, I did try and minimize the detailed parts of the picture, and the 5D only makes up around 3% of the shots in the 52 min show.

Is it possible to record live from the HDMI output in any way..?

f900/HVX


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Richard Harrington
Re: Where does 5D video fit in broadcast spec?
on Feb 5, 2010 at 7:00:54 am

You cannot record out the HDMI live... it places a red dot for recording on the image

Richard M. Harrington, PMP

Author: Video Made on a Mac, Photoshop for Video, Understanding Adobe Photoshop, Final Cut Studio On the Spot and ATS:iWork


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