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5D and FCP

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Edward Neary
5D and FCP
on Jun 24, 2010 at 7:41:40 pm

Just bought the Canon 5D MarkII.

Shot a wedding at 30P and I have a Matrox Mini connected to my computer.

Here's the workflow using FCP 7 on a MAC:

upload cards with a USB Card Reader with Apple Pro Res 422 Setting (takes forever!!!)

Wondering if I have to change settings on the Timeline? (Heard something about people shooting in 24P and changing the timeline settings to 24p in FCP).

How do I send it out for internet video and dvd's?

Can this be downconverted to SD or is it all HD with this camera?

Thanks



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Bob Dix
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 24, 2010 at 10:30:02 pm

You may be better shooting at sRAW1 or sRAW2 depending on the level of magnification you need for weddings 24 " x 20 " enlargements may need RAW and then convert.We do not use a card reader and go straight from the 5D mark II to My Pictures, but, as we use sRAW2 for High Definition video production they download from a Sandisk Extreme Pro 48Mbs CF Card in 20 secs ie. about 90 images and full high definiton H264 mov files and that is on a Pentium 4 in a PC.


At any level of recorded pixels the images and video are stunning.

Enjoy the camera.

If you do just DVD's the image quality will suffer, try blu-ray?Ie.,for HD.Ps. You can go SD @ 640 x480 but, what a waste of the camera's potential. The H264 mov files 1920 x 1080 can cause the timeline to come to a hault or move very slowly, we convert to Cineform HD avi and then edit. If you use CS5 premiere Pro I believe you will not have a problem. Use a very fast CF card 48 Mbs or more>

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Bill Davis
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 24, 2010 at 11:02:00 pm


Your workflow is unnecessarily complicated.

Install the Canon EOS utility that came with the 5dMk ii.

Tether your camera to your computer via USB with FCP running and use the EOS utility to bring your video files directly into an FCP timeline. It does the ProRes 422 transcoding on the fly and takes a WHOLE lot less time than anything else.

If you're unsure if your timeline settings are going to be correct - open a fresh FCP project and drop some of the video files into it's timeline or into the Browser and FCP will ask you if you want to confom the new timeline to the footage type. Say YES and you're ready to edit without a problem.

That's it.



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Michael Sacci
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 24, 2010 at 11:18:39 pm

[Bill Davis] "Tether your camera to your computer via USB with FCP running and use the EOS utility to bring your video files directly into an FCP timeline."

I would not recommend this at all. For one you will never have your raw files, they are your negatives, your tapes. Always copy them to a a HD with folder structure as it is on the card. Then do the Log and Transfer in FCP. That way there is a backup of the clips and you would normally want them on separate drives. You do not want to be working with the only copy of your media. This is rule #1 for tapeless workflows.

As a rule of thumb, your sequence settings should always match your clips, so if you want to edit as 24p you need to shoot that way. If you shoot 30p you need to edit with a 30p timeline.

To speed transfer to ProRes clips there is a new program by Red Giant and it will do multiple clips at the same time. How ever many processors you have it will transcode that number of clips. So with an 8-core the process will be basically 8x as fast if you have at least 8 clips to transcode.


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Mitch Ives
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 25, 2010 at 5:32:51 pm

[Michael Sacci] "I would not recommend this at all. For one you will never have your raw files, they are your negatives, your tapes. Always copy them to a a HD with folder structure as it is on the card. Then do the Log and Transfer in FCP. That way there is a backup of the clips and you would normally want them on separate drives. You do not want to be working with the only copy of your media. This is rule #1 for tapeless workflows. "

I agree with your comment on the importance of archiving, but if you've figured out how to get Log & Transfer to bring in files copied from a card to a HD, using the same structure, then I'd love to hear how you do it, because it has never worked here. In fact the EOS plugin docs tell you that you can't do it that way. Up until recently, you had two choices, use the camera so the EOS plugin can see the files, or make a disc image of the card. That can then be copied to a HD, where Log & Capture can see it.

Making disc images is a nightmare... it takes forever and makes archiving longer with a 5D than with P2 or any other digital format we work with. Fortunately, Red Giant Grinder came along, where they tell me you can use Log & Capture to bring in files copied to a HD using the same file structure as the card.

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Dane Silzle
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 25, 2010 at 6:37:27 pm

Ok here's a cheep sure-fire tool MPEG Streamclip you can
download for FREE at http://www.squared5.com.

here's what you do for 30p footage

1)download/install this program to your Mac
2)USE A CARD READER (connected to your USB port)save you footage to a folder.
3)3 open MPEG Streamclip goto , LIST/Batch List/add files, direct it to footage folder, chose(highlight all your files)/ Export to Quicktime /select your destination
(make a target folder). In Movie Exporter pulldown to Apple ProRes 422LT (in FCP 7) or use ProRes 422 (the bottom one) type in your desired frame rate 29.97(if NTSC) uncheck interlaced scaling and make sure you have the right resolution checked (1920x1080) and click on the "To Batch" button, your batch will be waiting
click go and wala...new files are being conformer.. depending on how many and how long your movies are will determine how long it takes. It's pretty fast.
Note: keep you batch down to 10 movies at a time.

Good luck have fun..(invoice is in the mail..LOL)

Dane
drppost

GH1(13), 7D,T2i
Lomo PL mount, Zeiss ZF, Nikkor F, Canon L

Mac Pro 8Core 18Gig
10.5.8
Decklink HDExtreme 7.6.3
HDone
Macbookpro
Matro MX0 mini


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John-Michael Trojan
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 25, 2010 at 8:35:48 pm

in order to use EOS utility after copying to a harddrive you just need to take both folders from the camera. Most people don't copy the MISC folder, hence why the tools fail. I've even re-created the correct structure from scratch and been successful.

best,

John-Michael


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Dane Silzle
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 26, 2010 at 12:12:51 am

Hi John-Micheal,

I guess I need to clairify:



This is a very fast and accurate way to conform Canon h.264 MPEGS to ProRes422
and does not in any way involve Canon Software.

here's what you do for 30p footage

1)download/install this program to your Mac
Meaning " MPEG Sreamclip"
2)USE A CARD READER (connected to your USB port)save you footage to a folder.
By Footage I mean FOOTAGE/ .MOV files... Not None footage.

I was just trying to share a sure-true and proven process to a forum member or members.
This is a Process I started using a Year ago and in-fact one that Philip Bloom give Tutorial on.

So this is an option to using the Canon Software and possibly faster.

Dane


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Kris Merkel
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 26, 2010 at 2:25:03 am

All of these suggestions work to some degree and each will be more comfortable to certain workflows. I third what Michael said about copying your media. I haven't used Grinder yet but my workflow is as follows:

- Record media on card
- create disk image of the card through FCP log and transfer
- Archive copy of disk image to perm. storage
- batch clips using L&T from working copy of disk image

Very few steps involved. It does take a while to create the .img, but I use multiple cards







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Bouke Vahl
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 26, 2010 at 12:49:51 pm

Besides Grinder, there is also my offload tool, conveniently called 'offloader'
It makes a backup of the card to HD, and can do transcoding as well.
Two advantages over Grinder:
- it DOES use the timecode from the THM files (or shoot date if the THM is not present)
- it is donationware. (Meaning, pay as much as you think it's worth)

It can also use multiple cores, you can do as many simultanious conversions as you like.
However, i've never done a speedtest. The idea is that you have your laptop on the shoot doing the work, so when you get home, everything is done. This way the actual speed does not really matter...
But since it's a normal QT export, and you can choose how much you want to stress the processor (depends on what else you want to do with it while it is converting), i guess it's equally fast as Grinder.

Download here:
http://www.videotoolshed.com/product/15/offloader/3

Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Dane Silzle
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 26, 2010 at 5:46:37 pm

What ever your comfortable with.

Please note: "MPEG Streamclip" is not "GRINDER" and is FREE and
there is NO time consuming log-and-transfer. You just import your
perfect ProRes 422 movies.

Again, it's just another option.

Dane
drppost

7D,T2i, GH13 Tester13 hack (76mbps)
ZF,L,Nikkor, Lomo PL

MacPro
8 core 18 Gig
10.5.8
FCS 2
Decklink HDExtreme
HDone

MBP
4Gig
FC2
MX0 2 mini


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Kris Merkel
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 27, 2010 at 3:18:45 am

Streamclip vs. compressor vs. L&T:

With a full 16Gb card converting to prores422, L&T is takes about 1.5 hours, Streamclip is just over an hour, and while you can use compressor to transcode the files, unless you use Qmaster and multiple cores, takes longer than both.

One item that has not been mentioned, and my be the tiebreaker on which method you choose the use is that L&T adds timecode to the clips.







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Michael Sacci
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 28, 2010 at 5:50:02 pm

[Kris Merkel] "One item that has not been mentioned, and my be the tiebreaker on which method you choose the use is that L&T adds timecode to the clips. "
That is the time breaker for me. Plus L&T gives you full logging (if anyone even does that anymore) You can break up clips into separate master clips, you can trim ins and outs. You can add comments, reel names and so on. This is huge if you are organizing you media.

That is why this needs to be looked at as a workflow and not just what is faster. So the what way should I import clips will vary from project to project. For a documentary with hundreds or thousands of clips, Take more time up front is probably the best way to go. I card full of clips that needs to be edited and delivered in a day, probably Streamclip or grinder might make more sense.


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Mitch Ives
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 30, 2010 at 4:46:41 pm

we copied everything off of the card into a folder. Obviously, we did something wrong, since it works for you. Thanks to you and Michael for pointing that out... time to get it right over here... thanks again.

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Michael Sacci
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 26, 2010 at 3:12:08 am

I have never made a disc image, not one time. I use the same method of my T2i footage as I do for P2.

Each card Dump goes into its own folder, each fold has a unique name that becomes the REEL name within FCP. The Card is then just copied into the folder with the exact structure as the card, only the Volume level is not copied.

Open up FCP, Log and Transfer and point it to those folders and there are the clips, every time. You can even do real logging with comments, choice which if any audio tracks come in. The added benefit is you now have timecode, which is needed if you ever need to reconnect media down the road.

You must have the Canon EOS plugin installed and if you have the T2i there is a mod you can do that takes a minute that makes those clips compatible.

Grinder and Streamclip are both good work flows, Grinder is a no brainer if you need to use proxies and give a client or producer, BITC of all the footage.


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Kris Merkel
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 27, 2010 at 3:21:55 am

"Each card Dump goes into its own folder, each fold has a unique name that becomes the REEL name within FCP. The Card is then just copied into the folder with the exact structure as the card, only the Volume level is not copied."

I have 2 full cards from this weeks shooting that I am going to try the above workflow with, right now. thanks for the tip.







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Kris Merkel
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 27, 2010 at 4:46:03 am

When I dump the card into a folder and then try to open the folder in Log and Transfer i get this msg.

"100CANON" contains unsupported media or has an invalid directory structure. Please choose a folder whose directory structure matches supported media.

How are you dumping the card?







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Uli Plank
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 27, 2010 at 6:09:41 am

Dump the whole content of the card into one folder and choose the folder into which you dumped it, not any folder inside of it.

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Bill Davis
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 27, 2010 at 7:51:08 am

Please notice that the OP did NOT ask about any form of safety backup workflow.

He asked how to GET HIS CLIPS FROM THE CAMERA TO THE TIMELINE - period.

I'm sure everyone here has their pet way to backup, number, file, offload, offsite backup, and or hermetically seal a perfect clone of the original card in lucite and burry it in an anti-radiation vault deep within a mountain.

And that's all great.

But it's NOT responsive to the guys question.

You want to have a nice chat about how your way to backup is the ONLY right way - fine. Have at it.

Personally, I find it a HUGE waste of time. Anyone working with 5dMkii files have already seen at least 4 MAJOR changes in the capabilities, nature, included software and workflow recommendations by both Canon and Apple (who should have some reasonable ideas about this stuff since they invented it) for working with these files.

There's a good chance in in the coming months and years, EVERYTHING we're doing now will change as these companies and others refine a workflow that was NEVER supposed to be as professionally functional as it's now become in the first place.

So sorry, but today's EXPERT is tomorrow's "old fashioned" practitioner. Heck, the way we're doing things at 10am is likely to change before 5pm on some unlucky days.

So relax. Do what you feel best. If you're getting work done at a rate that makes you happy - sit back and enjoy that reality. I am and I do.

Life's too short to worry that you're way isn't "PERFECT" enough.

Just like popping up and telling others that their way that works perfectly fine is somehow "wrong" simply because it differs from how YOU feel it "should" be done.

My 2 cents anyway.



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Michael Sacci
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 28, 2010 at 4:25:30 pm

Well since the OP seemed interested is learning I will continue with my train of thought.

Edward, make sure you are keeping the 100CANON folder inside the DCIM folder when you copy them, L&T needs the that structure. (I need go back and look at you do not need to copy the MISC folder but it will not hurt to do it anyway)

Back to Bill, you are right the "best" way to do it will change and we should never stitch to "our" way if something is better and safer out there. But to do it any old way because the best way to do it today will not be the best way down the road doesn't make much sense.

Today's experts will normally learn tomorrow's way, while today's fool has a head start on tomorrow.


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Michael Sacci
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 28, 2010 at 4:30:04 pm

And if you read my post I never said you were wrong, just that I would not recommend it, and then told him why I think that.


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Mitch Ives
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 30, 2010 at 5:03:09 pm

I guess I'm missing your point Bill? I think pointing out a workflow that mentions archiving is the only responsible way to answer a post like this, since one never knows the experience level of the person asking the question..

For those of us that have been using digital media since before these DSLRs existed, we've been through countless heart wrenching posts about how people didn't archive first, and no longer have the original files with the metadata... or archived in a way that they cannot retrieve, etc. and are are now contemplating taking their own life.

Using the "voice of experience", I can tell you that there is a serious pitfall to taking from the camera directly. I archive first, and then load from the archive. That way if there is a problem with the archiving process, I know it now, before the cards are erased. I can't tell you how many posts we seen where they took it from the camera and edited it, and then later went back to the archived files to further edit... only to find them corrupted or improperly copied.

Tape was simple... you just put it on the shelf. Digital cards are a lot more perilous in terms of preserving the footage.I know, I've been living it since the advent of P2. Just my $.02...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Bouke Vahl
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 30, 2010 at 5:33:54 pm

[Mitch Ives] "Tape was simple... you just put it on the shelf. Digital cards are a lot more perilous in terms of preserving the footage.I know,"

May i remind you that currently Compact flash is the same price per minute as digibeta / HDcam tapes?
(and take a bit less shelf...)




Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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Mitch Ives
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jun 30, 2010 at 6:07:10 pm

[Bouke Vahl] "May i remind you that currently Compact flash is the same price per minute as digibeta / HDcam tapes? (and take a bit less shelf...) "

True, but not as cheap as DV, DVcam, DVCpro, HDV, etc.which was the more common standard at the end of tape development.

I suppose it also depends on what CF cards you use? I don't use the 133X models, which are cheaper, as buffer problems have occurred. The current SanDisk Extremes are around $120 ($100 with rebate) for 16GB cards. That's what, about $6.25/GB. If I recall correctly, high quality DV/DVcam tape was around 40 cents/GB. Even the cheapest CF card seems to be around $3/GB, and I'm not sure it would be fast enough for full frame cameras.

You're right, for the high end, you could just shelve the cards for a similar cost. Won't it be nice when fast CF cards are cheap enough for everyone to do that... of course future cameras will probably require more expensive cards, and we'll be chasing the rabbit again.



Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: 5D and FCP
on Jul 3, 2010 at 11:27:35 pm

As an FWIW, here are a few blog articles I've done related to posting Canon footage. The workflow has evolved, especially since this started before that last firmware update. A lot of this is general, but hopefully some of this will be helpful for the OP.

http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2009/08/15/canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-in-the-re...
http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/easy-canon-5d-post-%E2%80%93-r...
http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/category/hdslrs-and-post/

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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