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Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?

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Riley Blakeway
Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?
on Dec 28, 2009 at 12:07:52 am

I have just started using my 7D to shoot some footage that I intend to edit in FCP.

I am using Cinema Tools to change the 50p footage to 25p But I also need to transcode the footage to prores for editing.

My question is which step do I take first?

Any help would be great.

Riley


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Ben Heusner Brownlee
Re: Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?
on Dec 28, 2009 at 6:53:37 am

What application are you using to do the transcode to ProRes? If you're using Compressor then you can just set it up to do both at the same time.

Set the codec up to ProRes and the framerate to 25 in the encoder pane. Then in the Frame Controls pane make sure that the Set Duration has "So source frames play at 25fps".

If memory serves, that should do you.

Cheers,
Ben

Curious Turtle Pro Video
Training | Editing | Support
Out Now - Film Wash Color Effects Vol. 3
& Mocha training for AE & FCP


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Riley Blakeway
Re: Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?
on Dec 28, 2009 at 8:55:00 am

Thank you Ben, I appreciate the prompt reply.

I played around with the footage for a few hours today and I think I have the process wired. I will try your way and see how that goes also.

Thanks again,

Riley


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Jorel Pi
Re: Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?
on Jan 1, 2010 at 1:54:43 am

Here's my workflow for 7d Slow motion..

1) Transcode h.264 to prores using mpeg streamclip
2) Conform Prores footage using Cinema Tools
3) Edit conformed video in Final Cut

Here's a sample video of some slow motion video using the above method.
http://bit.ly/7vAE3U


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John Davidson
Here's a vote for after.
on Jan 2, 2010 at 11:07:28 pm

I did this little 'project' a different way just to see how it would go. It was pretty painless.

First, I conformed in cinema tool on the h264 footage. Loaded it all in to Final Cut. Then, I used media manager to recompress to a new project. I haven't used mpeg streamclip, but this process was pretty darn simple - but it did take about 2 hours to transcode all the clips....

Here are the results.
http://www.vimeo.com/8493311


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Drew Muir
Re: Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?
on Jan 10, 2010 at 10:56:46 pm



Sorry for a basic question (new to all this stuff),

Was this shot 25p (or 24p)?

What does Cinema Tools do? Is this for Slow Mo?

I have stayed away from 25p (Australia) because everything looks jittery. Is this what Cinema Tools gets rid of?

Sytem MAC Leopard 10.5 Dual 3Gig 4 Core, 8Gig RAM, Internal Software Raid FX4500 Video
Final Cut studio 2, Shake and Adobe Production Suite CS3


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Riley Blakeway
Re: Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?
on Jan 11, 2010 at 12:35:16 am

I use 25p as I live in Australia.

It is my humble opinion that 24p is somewhat more desirable as it is closest to the frame rate of film.

Cinema tools is used to conform 50p/60p footage into live slow motion if that makes sense.

When you shoot 50p footage on a DSLR you need to use a program such as cinema tools to do this.


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John Davidson
Re: Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?
on Jan 11, 2010 at 12:54:31 am

Was this shot 25p (or 24p)?
The slow motion footage was shot at 720/60p. The regular speed footage was shot at 1080/24p.

What does Cinema Tools do? Is this for Slow Mo?
Yes, If you notice, shooting 720/60p, footage looks like 'video' because the footage is overcranked.
If you shoot 10 seconds of footage at 24p, you end up with roughly 240 frames of footage, which is 24 frames per second (the nice looking film frame rate). Shooting at 60p creates 600 frames of this exact same 10 seconds of footage. If you don't touch it, you get a video look at regular speed. Cinema Tools changes the frame rate that these 60p clips play back to 24p, resulting in 600 frames played out at 24 frames per second, turning that 10 seconds of footage into 25 seconds of glorious, smooth, slow motion.

You could also probably conform this 60p footage to 25p, I live in America though, and since every thing we do is right and perfect, I can't confirm how that process would work :). Lol!


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Jiri Fiala
Re: Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?
on Feb 4, 2010 at 9:18:32 am

Is there a difference between conforming 50p to 24 or 25p in Cinema Tools and just changing the clips' speed on FCP timeline? Tx!


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Ben Heusner Brownlee
Re: Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?
on Feb 4, 2010 at 1:34:28 pm

If you use Cinema Tools to change the frame rate there is no interpolation between the frames. It just plays those frames that were shot at 60fps at 25fps (or your chosen frame rate). You get sharp frames the way that they were shot, they're just playing back at a different speed.

Changing the clip's speed in FCP forces a render and creates interpolation between frames. So FCP is making up new pixels instead of playing the original back at the new frame rate.

Hope that makes sense,
Ben

Curious Turtle Pro Video
Training | Editing | Support
Out Now - Film Wash Color Effects Vol. 3
& Mocha training for AE & FCP


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Jiri Fiala
Re: Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?
on Feb 4, 2010 at 1:57:46 pm

And what if I disable frame blending in the Clip Speed panel (cmd-j)? I should get the same results as when conforming in Cinema Tools, shouldn't I?


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Ben Heusner Brownlee
Re: Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?
on Feb 4, 2010 at 2:13:37 pm

You'll get repeated frames rather than interpolated ones.

From the manual:

# If a clip’s media file frame rate is faster than the sequence frame rate: Final Cut Pro drops frames of the clip’s media file as necessary to create the appearance of playback at the sequence frame rate. Because frames are skipped, you won’t always be able to trim these clips with frame accuracy. In those cases, you may want to open the original clip in the Viewer to set a specific In or Out point before editing the clip into the sequence.


Cheers,
Ben

Curious Turtle Pro Video
Training | Editing | Support
Out Now - Film Wash Color Effects Vol. 3
& Mocha training for AE & FCP


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Jiri Fiala
Re: Transcode 7D footage before or after overcranking in cinema tools?
on Feb 4, 2010 at 2:33:38 pm

Great. Thanks for clearing that up!


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