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Shutter speeds? Filmic look as well as 60p question.

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Tommy David
Shutter speeds? Filmic look as well as 60p question.
on Jul 24, 2015 at 2:54:32 pm

I have always shot with 24p using (1/48) 1/50 or 1/60 if I'm indoors. How fast can I get the shutter speed until it starts to lose that blur filmic look?

Also, with 60p I always shoot at 1/125 because I use it with slow motion. However, now I am starting to use 60p for non slow motion videos since YouTube supports 60p now. Such as guitar videos, so my movement is more fluid. Better to set the shutter at 1/60 or 1/125? I know to do 1/125 for slow motion but is it too choppy for normal speed?

When I google it, some people say for regular video on 60p it needs to be 1/60 but others say one must use the rule of doubling it so 1/125. I like the smooth motion of 60p in normal speed but I don't want any choppiness. Would it be wrong to use 1/48 at 60p? I do have a 4k camera that does 1/48 unlike the DSLR's.


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Blaise Douros
Re: Shutter speeds? Filmic look as well as 60p question.
on Jul 24, 2015 at 4:51:42 pm

1) Only you can answer what looks acceptable to you. However, the key is knowing what kind of effect you're looking for. The faster you speed up your shutter speed, the closer you'll get to the look in the Gladiator fight scenes.

2) I'd stick with 1/125, if you're looking to show smooth, crisp motion at 60p. 1/60 will still show roughly the same amount of motion blur as when you use 1/50 with 24p footage.

3) You can't use a 1/48 shutter at 60p--because you're shooting at 60 fps (1/60 of a second for each frame), the maximum amount of time that the shutter can be open is 1/60.

3.5) Some higher end professional cameras actually CAN have the shutter open longer, but it will create this timelapse-y motion trail effect that is only really useful for special effects. Most cameras will not allow you to set the shutter speed lower than the frame rate. You can create a really neat, dreamy look by setting the shutter speed at something like 1/4 with the frame rate at 24p. But it's not useful other than as a special effect.


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Tommy David
Re: Shutter speeds? Filmic look as well as 60p question.
on Jul 24, 2015 at 4:59:27 pm

Thanks let me ask you another question. I notice some flickr and I shoot at 1/48 in 24FPS. I understand in the USA indoors under lights I have to shoot at 1/60 and I do. But outside I go 1/48 because there is no artificial lighting. Do I still need to shoot at 1/60 even outside due to the camcorder being USA and my monitor being USA? Because I have noticed flickr, even outside. Not much of it though and I'm not sure if it's the shutter speed or that occasional flickr that seems to happen in 4k.

I was always under the impression that you only had to use 1/60 in the USA when under artificial lighting. However this has made me question if I'm wrong about that and if my computer or something else causes me to have to shoot at 1/60 even outdoors?


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Blaise Douros
Re: Shutter speeds? Filmic look as well as 60p question.
on Jul 24, 2015 at 5:10:53 pm

There are two kinds of flicker; the natural kind that results from using 24p, and the kind that results from shooting under fluorescent, HMI, or some kinds of LED lighting.

24p became the standard framerate because it was about the minimum needed for humans to resolve motion (less fps means less film used), and because it was easier to sync audio to in the film days. In theory, there's no reason we should prefer 24fps over 30, 48, or 60fps...except that we've conditioned to see that kind of flickering, slightly stuttered motion as filmic, and faster framerates as "home-video-y." It's an emotional thing, and helps with the suspension of disbelief.

As for the lighting question; fluorescent (and some other) types of lighting flicker on and off at a rate of 60 hz because that's the frequency at which our electrical grid functions. If you have a FASTER shutter speed than that, you will start to see lines rolling down your footage as your camera sees the periods of time that the lights are off. So shooting at certain shutter speeds will make sure that you don't see these rolling lines in your footage. This may help you understand: http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/flicker-free-video-tutorial

Now--if you shoot under tungsten lighting (i.e. regular halogen bulbs), this is not a problem. It's only lighting types that are regulated by the frequency of the electrical grid.


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Tommy David
Re: Shutter speeds? Filmic look as well as 60p question.
on Jul 24, 2015 at 5:21:50 pm
Last Edited By Tommy David on Jul 24, 2015 at 5:23:56 pm

Okay, so outdoors I can safely keep shooting at 1/48? I notice with my light kit, which is CFL I can even shoot 1/48 indoors most of the time, although I don't to be safe. Because it only happens when I'm focused on certain objects. It's not aliasing or moire either. But it seems like when the light shines on certain objects it causes the camera to see the flickr in the light. Like guitar strings.

I don't know if I can tell a difference in 1/48 and 1/60. I just choose 1/48 when I'm outside because I assume the closer to the 180 the better. I like the film look and edit to make it look vintage.

Here is a video I did with my full frame camera vs the 1 inch sensor. The full frame was on 1/50 the 1 inch is on 1/48. I can notice some flashing in this but it's very subtle and you got to really be looking for it. The video tells you which camera I'm operating. One is 4k down sampled to 1080p and the other is just 1080p so there is a difference there. One is sharper than the other. I tried to color grade them to get them to match but not perfectly. Excuse the typos in the video, forgot to check it before export.

If you look on my channel there and go to the music studio video you'll notice the flickr really bad.

Notice the cornfield in this video. See the flashing?







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Blaise Douros
Re: Shutter speeds? Filmic look as well as 60p question.
on Jul 24, 2015 at 5:38:35 pm

Yes, you can shoot 1/48 pretty much at all times without worrying about banding--under natural light, it just doesn't happen, and there are only a few situations in CFL light that you'll be able to detect it.

The reason that the guitar strings look weird is that they are vibrating. When they do that, their motion interacts with the 60hz strobing from your CFLs, and so only part of the string's motion is illuminated. So it is, in an abstract sense, a form of physical moire that manifests differently than the kind we're used to seeing (which is caused by visual patterns interacting with the sensor mesh). It's the light wave interacting with the waveform vibration of the object.

There's no particular artifacting that I see in this clip. Nothing besides the normal movement (which we call judder) of 24p media.


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Tommy David
Re: Shutter speeds? Filmic look as well as 60p question.
on Jul 25, 2015 at 2:10:50 pm

Let me ask you about panning. This wasn't a big problem in 1080p but since 4k is so sharp when I pan in 24FPS, even slowly it can be difficult. It hurts the eyes. Should I slower the shutter speed when panning? Or should I shoot the pans in 30FPS and just put them in a 24FPS timeline? My camera doesn't do 4k at 60p or else I'd just do most of the pans in slow motion. I'm used to doing the pans in 1080p 60p. I have done some pans that look good indoors at 4k 24FPS but when it's outdoors and there is more detail that judder plus how sharp it is makes my eyes focus and refocus so many times a second that it can give a headache.


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Blaise Douros
Re: Shutter speeds? Filmic look as well as 60p question.
on Jul 27, 2015 at 3:29:43 pm

When viewed on the same screen at the same size, there is no difference between a pan at 24p on 4K vs HD. You may be seeing judder, tearing, or rolling shutter artifacts at higher resolution due to the limitations of the 4K capture mode on your camera; but think about it. You're viewing the same image, shot at the same shutter speed, on the same monitor. One version has more detail. That doesn't change the way the scene moves, just the level of detail you can see. That, in fact, may be confusing the issue, since you can see more detail, it distracts from whatever the subject is.


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